Need recommendations for a plumber in Christchurch

**HenryDorsetCase** · 17th July 2010, 13:34

it appears our hot water cylinder has shit itself. Or is about to.

like I need that three weeks before a holiday

**nothingflash** · 17th July 2010, 15:06

Bugger mate. I had the same thing happen in February 8 days into a 10 day tour of the South Island... Not that there's a 'good time' for this to happen of course - except maybe after you've sold the house!

**Edbear** · 17th July 2010, 15:10

Originally Posted by HenryDorsetCase

it appears our hot water cylinder has shit itself. Or is about to.

like I need that three weeks before a holiday

Let me know what you need, I can get you a good price for the cylinder and if necessary the valve kit. Check my website, www.hotwatercylinder.co.nz don't worry about the prices listed, just call me on our freephone number or email me at helpdesk@plumbers.co.nz We have plumbers in Chch registered with us to do the installs as well.

**mikeey01** · 17th July 2010, 15:49

Your a good barstard Edbear, good on ya mate!

Not wanting to de-rail this thread, honestly what's this solar hot water stuff really like? How long does it last?
What's this I hear about a grant?

**Edbear** · 17th July 2010, 16:15

Originally Posted by mikeey01

Your a good barstard Edbear, good on ya mate!

Not wanting to de-rail this thread, honestly what's this solar hot water stuff really like? How long does it last?
What's this I hear about a grant?

IN order of personal preference, my choice for water heating is Solar, Heatpump, Gas and Electric. Solar water heating is becoming very popular here due to the cost savings, however a good heatpump cylinder such as Rheem's HDi310 will save almost as much. My preference for solar is that it is indpendent of electricity and will work 24hrs a day.

There are several types of system on the market - two main types, either direct or indirect, (without coil and with coil), and two different types of solar panel - flat plate or evacuated tube. The most efficient is indirect with evacuated tube panels, but it is also the most expensive. If you were building new, I'd recommend going this way as it is a fraction of the build cost.

The cheapest would be to retrofit your existing cylinder with a flat plate panel. As long as your cylinder is not too old, (we recommend not more than five years), and is in good condition, you'll enjoy the benefits of solar heating and around a 60% saving in water heating costs. Many are actually turning their electricity off to the cylinder for much of the year. The ultimate would be a wetback and solar system.

At present, the Govt. is still offering a $1,000 rebate. Once the system is installed, send them the bill, (paid), and they will refund the $1000.00.

Heatpumps offer similar savings, at similar price to install, but still use electricity, so if the power goes off, so does your hot water.

Unless you have mains gas to the house, I don't recommend gas due to the line charges and the cost of install. In the SI, gas is all bottle and can be a viable option cost wise. However solar is the best and most efficient system.

**mikeey01** · 17th July 2010, 16:35

Cheers for the advise Edbear. Our hwc is a Peter cocks A grade 2004 180 litre jobbie. Just over the 5 year date you mention.
Out of interest what sort of cost (economical) (rough numbers) would it cost to get a solar system.

**Edbear** · 17th July 2010, 17:34

Originally Posted by mikeey01

Cheers for the advise Edbear. Our hwc is a Peter cocks A grade 2004 180 litre jobbie. Just over the 5 year date you mention.
Out of interest what sort of cost (economical) (rough numbers) would it cost to get a solar system.

Just a correction to my post, I said solar works 24hrs a day, ummm, not so well at night of course...

Is your cylinder low or mains pressure? If it's a low pressure cylinder it may still be suitable for a direct solar system. You'll only require one panel and we have a deal in Auckland on the www.solarheating.co.nz website which we should be able to arrange in most areas. Prices should range between about $5k - $9k depending on which system you go for. If you're quoted more than $9k, send me the quote and I'll let you know if it's fair.

Plumbing quotes vary a lot as well. I recommended our registered plumber in Wgtn to a client who had received quotes for labour of $1100 - $1200. Despite being an award winning craftsman plumber and gasfitter who lectures at Weltec, his quote was $700.

For replacing a hot water cylinder, a ball park bracket would be from $300 for a simple low pressure swap with the same size and type of cylinder, to say a top of $900 for an upgrade from low pressure to mains, which should include the electrician's cost. Add the cost of the cylinder and if necessary the valve kit to this for an all up cost.

Peter Cocks has most of the SI low pressure market and vies with Rheem in the mains pressure market with Rheem usually having a slight edge on price. Superheat are rapidly increasing their market share through us due to their unbeaten quality and the price we have negotiated with them for supply. If anyone wants stainless steel, we can offer a price you won't get anywhere else. Very few manufacturers are offering low quality products and with few exceptions you will get good quality from all the manufacturers and importers in NZ with industry standard warranties.

**Grumph** · 17th July 2010, 19:35

All good info from the bear - but the SI throws up some awkward problems too.
I used to work for an outfit selling solar hot water installs in ChCh - some of the problems are:

Frost - thermosyphon systems (no pump) can freeze if the dump valve fails or refuses to work.
Last time I looked version 5 of the dump valve was current. I'd hope there have been improvements.
Pump systems - the location of the sensor for the pump switch - which will circulate water to prevent freezing - is critical. And seems to be individual to each installation too.

On balance from Kaikoura south I'd go for a pump installation. Personally, liviing out back in Canterbury, I don't have solar. Reason - today is the first day in a month we haven't had at least a 6 deg frost. Rising at 530am to run the water so as to avoid a freeze is routine at this time of year.
Solar can and does work well - but you've got to look hard at the location - and one formula does not suit all.

**Edbear** · 17th July 2010, 19:44

Originally Posted by Grumph

All good info from the bear - but the SI throws up some awkward problems too.
I used to work for an outfit selling solar hot water installs in ChCh - some of the problems are:

Frost - thermosyphon systems (no pump) can freeze if the dump valve fails or refuses to work.
Last time I looked version 5 of the dump valve was current. I'd hope there have been improvements.
Pump systems - the location of the sensor for the pump switch - which will circulate water to prevent freezing - is critical. And seems to be individual to each installation too.

On balance from Kaikoura south I'd go for a pump installation. Personally, liviing out back in Canterbury, I don't have solar. Reason - today is the first day in a month we haven't had at least a 6 deg frost. Rising at 530am to run the water so as to avoid a freeze is routine at this time of year.
Solar can and does work well - but you've got to look hard at the location - and one formula does not suit all.

Good point and in this situation I'd recommend a closed loop or indirect system. This uses a coil in the cylinder which acts as the heating element. A glycol solution is circulated through the coil and panels to avoid freezing. If you also go for evacuated tube panels you'll get better performance as the tubes make full use of the sun's arc and are less sensitive to positioning.

**piston broke** · 17th July 2010, 21:03

there isn't anything really hard to fix with a hwc.
element,thermostat, just get and fit a replacement.about 10minute job.
ajax or similar valve,if you have water flowing out the top,replacement parts about $50. 30 min fix

shite $ 5-9k for solar.
thats a fek of a lot of power,that would take me near 10 years to break even

**Edbear** · 18th July 2010, 11:10

Originally Posted by piston broke

there isn't anything really hard to fix with a hwc.
element,thermostat, just get and fit a replacement.about 10minute job.
ajax or similar valve,if you have water flowing out the top,replacement parts about $50. 30 min fix

shite $ 5-9k for solar.
thats a fek of a lot of power,that would take me near 10 years to break even

That's fine but not if the cylinder has sprung a leak due to age or corrosion, and you're referring to a low pressure cylinder here as well, not mains pressure.

Average time to recover cost is about 5 years. It's a bit of a misnomer to talk about this though, as we do many things that come under capital expenditure without worrying about the recovery and without any long term financial benefits. Solar power offers several advantages, including an immediate saving in daily energy costs, added value to the home and security of supply in the case of power failure.

**HenryDorsetCase** · 18th July 2010, 11:25

Originally Posted by Edbear

That's fine but not if the cylinder has sprung a leak due to age or corrosion, and you're referring to a low pressure cylinder here as well, not mains pressure.

Average time to recover cost is about 5 years. It's a bit of a misnomer to talk about this though, as we do many things that come under capital expenditure without worrying about the recovery and without any long term financial benefits. Solar power offers several advantages, including an immediate saving in daily energy costs, added value to the home and security of supply in the case of power failure.

Thanks for the responses. I will follow up with Ed on this.

Our cylinder is the same age as the house (40 years) and is as far as I can tell original. We've replaced the thermostat once already, but yesterdays issue was me opening the HWC cupboard door to get out the ironing board*, and hearing "drip drip drip", thinking "Uhhhhhhhhh????" getting a torch and looking under it at the buckets which THANKFULLY were stored there, to see a large plastic thing 20l capacity about to overflow. My thought? "Ahhhhhhh fuckit!"

the drip has released about 8l of water in 24 hours give or take. the leak is not coming from the pipework under the cylinder but it is coming from round the jacket where the pipe comes out the bottom. I infer there is a hole near the outlet pipe which is trickling thru the insualation and into the bucket.

Since our water pressure is pretty woeful, its a good opportunity to go to mains pressure. I can't afford to go solar at present, and in chch I have had the concerns mentioned above re freezing etc. Plus there is a possibility that we will be selling this house in a year or so. I'm not sure I subscribe to the belief that fruit like this will add value. I think its more like selling a bike with Ohlins shock and cartridges. Its cost the owner a shitload of money, but you dont necessarily get a market price premium, but if its a choice between my bike with Ohlins and yours with standard suspension, all other things being equal, mine should sell first. the security of supply, and saving in power bills though are inarguable

the big issue (in fact the only issue I can see) with going to mains pressure is that it might be a good way to pressure test our existing plumbing, to find any pinholes or leaks... or even leak prone bits. Having said that, we renovated our kitchen, bathroom and laundry about five years ago and most of the HW pipes were replaced then (I think).

Suck it and see.

*sad but true

**Edbear** · 18th July 2010, 11:41

Originally Posted by HenryDorsetCase

Thanks for the responses. I will follow up with Ed on this.

Our cylinder is the same age as the house (40 years) and is as far as I can tell original. We've replaced the thermostat once already, but yesterdays issue was me opening the HWC cupboard door to get out the ironing board*, and hearing "drip drip drip", thinking "Uhhhhhhhhh????" getting a torch and looking under it at the buckets which THANKFULLY were stored there, to see a large plastic thing 20l capacity about to overflow. My thought? "Ahhhhhhh fuckit!"

the drip has released about 8l of water in 24 hours give or take. the leak is not coming from the pipework under the cylinder but it is coming from round the jacket where the pipe comes out the bottom. I infer there is a hole near the outlet pipe which is trickling thru the insualation and into the bucket.

Since our water pressure is pretty woeful, its a good opportunity to go to mains pressure. I can't afford to go solar at present, and in chch I have had the concerns mentioned above re freezing etc. Plus there is a possibility that we will be selling this house in a year or so. I'm not sure I subscribe to the belief that fruit like this will add value. I think its more like selling a bike with Ohlins shock and cartridges. Its cost the owner a shitload of money, but you dont necessarily get a market price premium, but if its a choice between my bike with Ohlins and yours with standard suspension, all other things being equal, mine should sell first. the security of supply, and saving in power bills though are inarguable

the big issue (in fact the only issue I can see) with going to mains pressure is that it might be a good way to pressure test our existing plumbing, to find any pinholes or leaks... or even leak prone bits. Having said that, we renovated our kitchen, bathroom and laundry about five years ago and most of the HW pipes were replaced then (I think).

Suck it and see.

*sad but true

It's almost certainly a low pressure cylinder as they commonly last from 20 - 40 years and it's almost certainly worn out. Your cold water is always at mains pressure so if there are no leaks from your plumbing there shouldn't be from an upgrade. It is possible you may need to replace the odd tap washer and in rare instances your shower mixer, though I don't personally know of more than one case where they did.

The difference by upgrading is chalk and cheese and you won't know yourself! I wouldn't recommend going solar unless you plan on sticking around for a few years.

Feel free to ask any questions, cheers.

**piston broke** · 20th July 2010, 11:14

Originally Posted by Edbear

Average time to recover cost is about 5 years. It's a bit of a misnomer to talk about this though, as we do many things that come under capital expenditure without worrying about the recovery and without any long term financial benefits. Solar power offers several advantages, including an immediate saving in daily energy costs, added value to the home and security of supply in the case of power failure.

5 years is pretty good.

what sort of lifespan could you expect at a guess?
the other thing i am thinking of to replace my cylinder with is a gas caliphont.
http://www.plumbingworld.co.nz/Pages...at=3&fpb=false
are there any downsides to these?other than having to get gas bottles filled.