The AA are lying about us.

[MSTRS:Me]

Everyone (and no-one) is lying. Except Nick the Prick.
People quote stats to reinforce their own viewpoint. Problem with this, is that those that read it get mislead to the whole truth. Or worse, 'fill in the missing pieces' based on what they think they read. IE the AA claim that 35 out of 43 motorcycle deaths were the fault of the rider = 80% of motorcycle crashes are the rider's fault. This is not so. The full story is only apparent if the full stats are in the one article. Which doesn't happen.

[Katman]

What bugs me most is the attitude that many have of "hey, accidents happen - you'll never get rid of them" which then seems to lead them to the belief that nothing can be gained from trying to reduce them.

[dipshit]

The people at BRONZ work diligently to promote responsible riding and volunteer their time to provide safety courses that are endorsed by Ulysses to HOG to ACC who provide vouchers. Average folks working democratically, transparently and in good faith.

And then they undermine all that good work by propagating the lie that most motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers.

The poster's statements regarding subterfuge or misleading are simply absurd.

Do you want me to show you examples of where BRONZ has said that and even had it on anti ACC literature.

[dipshit]

What bugs me most is the attitude that many have of "hey, accidents happen - you'll never get rid of them" which then seems to lead them to the belief that nothing can be gained from trying to reduce them.

But in the same breath call for better education for car drivers... cos they all know car drivers are the problem.

[riffer]

What bugs me most is the attitude that many have of "hey, accidents happen - you'll never get rid of them" which then seems to lead them to the belief that nothing can be gained from trying to reduce them.

You know, that pisses me off too.

[davereid]

What bugs me most is the attitude that many have of "hey, accidents happen - you'll never get rid of them" which then seems to lead them to the belief that nothing can be gained from trying to reduce them.

I'm pretty relaxed about my chance of having an accident. I ride carefully, and I don't particularly care if you don't, as long as you are a safe distance from me..

I'm much less relaxed about watching caring people inflict an wide range of safety initiatives on me.

And this is the reason for our dispute.

I ride a dangerous motorcycle for pleasure.

Sometimes I increase my risk by riding without ATGATT, indeed as I have already commented, a quiet putt, helmet-less down a country road on a stinking hot day is a true pleasure, already (legally) denied me by clever carers.

Soon my jacket and pants will be mandated, and my boots will need a DOT sticker. I'll have to retrain every 5 years, as it must be my skill level that makes your mates crash.

You will do it all, convinced that as its for my own good, you have the moral authority to ruin my motorcycling.

Its getting to be like drinking a single malt whisky... with a pint of water added by those who love me to make me safer.

[Katman]

You will do it all, convinced that as its for my own good, you have the moral authority to ruin my motorcycling.

It's called fighting back against the irresponsible motorcyclists (who have no moral authority) who are ruining motorcycling for us all.

Get used to it.

[bogan]

I agree with davreid on this one, each rider should be responsible for thier own safety, by all means educate and train people to ride safely, but making laws for everything won't do fuck all except gather revenue and make riding less enjoyable.

[Katman]

I agree with davreid on this one, each rider should be responsible for thier own safety, by all means educate and train people to ride safely, but making laws for everything won't do fuck all except gather revenue and make riding less enjoyable.

Best then we get our thinking caps on because if we don't come up with ideas to improve matters the government sure as fuck will.

[MIXONE]

Best then we get our thinking caps on because if we don't come up with ideas to improve matters the government sure as fuck will.

Hell must have just frozen over because I actually agree with you.

[FJRider]

Hell must have just frozen over because I actually agree with you.

I was thinking it was a little cool myself ...

[bogan]

Best then we get our thinking caps on because if we don't come up with ideas to improve matters the government sure as fuck will.

didn't you start a thread in which many good ideas were put forward? whats being done about them?

[MIXONE]

I was thinking it was a little cool myself ...

They have the interweb in hell?
At least I've got something to look forward to.

[Katman]

didn't you start a thread in which many good ideas were put forward? whats being done about them?

It was started in the hope that it may have provoked some debate at the BRONZ meeting.

Whether it did or not, remains a mystery.

[bogan]

It was started in the hope that it may have provoked some debate at the BRONZ meeting.

Whether it did or not, remains a mystery.

Regardless of why it was started, we already put our thinking caps on and so far it has come to nought. Seems to me we need some people to stand up and start doing shit (outside of whinging on kb), if you feel so strongly it needs to be done, and that bronz won't do it, put your hand up.