Are speed cameras, laser guns etc now illegal?

[Mr Merde]

In answer to some of the replies that the detection laser do not cast a light upon the subject vehicle.

It doesnt cast a light visible to our eyes.

The principle is still the same.

A laser sight for a rifle or a laser pointer sight generates a light in a certain frequency and spectrum. They are also designed to emmit as small a concentration as possibe.

A laser speed detector still cast a ligh upon an object. We may not with our eyes see it but it is there.

Principles are the same

If I throw a pebble at you or I throw a brick at you. I am still throwing something at you.

[Deano]

What's laughable is that you don't have any answers to the questions I posed regarding your assumptions. If you were any more full of shit, you'd be a septic tank.

You didn't answer mine either, but congratulations on resorting to personal insults. (I'll stoop to your level in a minute)

So - If yelling Police doesn't cut the mustard, then how should they identify themselves ?

What would you have the person who lives there do? Put down his only form of protection in the hope that the two blokes in his home, in the middle of the night, are who they said they are, only to have his head caved in?

The guy should have moved the laser off the officer (after being told too how many times ?) and waited to see the whites of their eyes (and their uniform). If it wasn't the cops then blast away.

Actually I did answer your first question but then you just got silly.

I don't know how many times - do you? If someone lies a lot does that mean it becomes the truth? How do you know they were in uniform? Would you be foolish enough to believe someone that has entered you home in the middle of the night and you can't actually see, is a cop because they say so and then let them get close enough to use the weapon they might be carrying that you also can't see? I sure fucking well wouldn't.

He was warned at least twice according to reports.
No lying often enough doesn't make it the truth but so what - what's your point.
I doubt that they were detectives - I assumed that they were wearing uniforms.
I would not continue to point a gun at somebody calling themselves a cop no. Move it to the side and then identify your target first.

In any case - do as you wish - you'll end up tazered or shot or both. Maybe not a bad thing. Have you bred yet ?

[Indiana_Jones]

Perhaps when the next cop shines a tourch at me or even has his car headlights pointed towards me I'll drop to the floor screaming "police brutality!!!"

-Indy

[Bald Eagle]

Perhaps when the next cop shines a tourch at me or even has his car headlights pointed towards me I'll drop to the floor screaming "police brutality!!!"

-Indy

the ref will just give you a yellow card for bad theatrics.

[Max Preload]

You didn't answer mine either, but congratulations on resorting to personal insults. (I'll stoop to your level in a minute)

Which question directed at me in the form of a reply did I not answer?

So - If yelling Police doesn't cut the mustard, then how should they identify themselves ?

Simple. They shouldn't be entering a place they can't be readily identified by an occupant who is entitled to protect himself from an intruder.

Actually I did answer your first question but then you just got silly.

No, you merely proposed a scenario where the lawful occupant was to allow the unidentified intruder to get close enough to bash him, which I then pointed out is stupid.

He was warned at least twice according to reports.

Not either of the reports I've seen on Stuff and the NZ Herald. Got a link?

No lying often enough doesn't make it the truth but so what - what's your point.

My point is that no matter how many times the unidentified intruder called out "Police" it doesn't mean they're not still simply lying.

I doubt that they were detectives - I assumed that they were wearing uniforms.

Since there's actually nothing to suggest either way, lets just go with 'it was dark and they couldn't be seen so it's irrelevant' so it doesn't matter if they were or weren't. Which was my point from the beginning - we don't know if they were in uniform.

I would not continue to point a gun at somebody calling themselves a cop no. Move it to the side and then identify your target first.

I would, if they can't be identified as such. After all, what's an extra charge of "Impersonating Police" when you're up on a "Home invasion"?

In any case - do as you wish - you'll end up tazered or shot or both. Maybe not a bad thing. Have you bred yet ?

Do you want to end up with your head kicked in because you were silly enough to believe what an unidentified intruder to your home said? If so, I certainly hope you haven't bred. They'd have to end up dumber than sticks.

[Deano]

Which question directed at me in the form of a reply did I not answer?

When I asked exactly how the cops should have identified themselves. You've since answered it below, sort of anyway.

Simple. They shouldn't be entering a place they can't be readily identified by an occupant who is entitled to protect himself from an intruder.

To my knowledge they had every right to enter the dwelling to ascertain if a crime had been committed. As the judge said, a firearm was the wrong choice to defend himself with. In any case the first rule of firearms is to identify your target isn't it ?

No, you merely proposed a scenario where the lawful occupant was to allow the unidentified intruder to get close enough to bash him, which I then pointed out is stupid.

I never said he had to allow the Police to get close enough to bash him, merely that he should not have pointed the laser DIRECTLY at them. How long does it take to raise the gun again if it wasn't the cops ? A fraction of a second.

And the cops don't know if the occupant was the owner or a burglar themselves - a reasonable assumption given that the place appeared broken in to. If the cops had been armed the dude would have been shot. That's clever.

Not either of the reports I've seen on Stuff and the NZ Herald. Got a link?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crim...ells-homeowner

My point is that no matter how many times the unidentified intruder called out "Police" it doesn't mean they're not still simply lying.

So who is to say an undercover cop's ID isn't fake as he is arresting someone. Can you shoot him on the assumption his ID could have been fake ? (Like lying)

Funny but I've never heard of a home invasion where the crooks claim to be cops. Fuck - you're onto something there.........LOL

Do you want to end up with your head kicked in because you were silly enough to believe what an unidentified intruder to your home said? If so, I certainly hope you haven't bred. They'd have to end up dumber than sticks.

I don't possess a gun so will never be in the scenario you describe. But if they yelled Police I would make sure of my target before kicking their heads in.

The AOS are dressed in black, would you point a gun at them in your back yard at night and hope to get away with it ?

[scumdog]

In answer to some of the replies that the detection laser do not cast a light upon the subject vehicle.

It doesnt cast a light visible to our eyes.

The principle is still the same.

A laser sight for a rifle or a laser pointer sight generates a light in a certain frequency and spectrum. They are also designed to emmit as small a concentration as possibe.

A laser speed detector still cast a ligh upon an object. We may not with our eyes see it but it is there.

Principles are the same

If I throw a pebble at you or I throw a brick at you. I am still throwing something at you.

Yep, motorist are always getting shot at by cops with a laser, you should see the carnage.

(I feel they are not really in the "wow, that could be a firearm pointed at me" catagory, lasers speed detection devices are rarely attached to bullet launching devices...)

[porky]

(I feel they are not really in the "wow, that could be a firearm pointed at me" catagory, lasers speed detection devices are rarely attached to bullet launching devices...)[/QUOTE]

But if they did it would be the end of high speed persuits. Something capable of taking out a tank would be preferable, save on the trip to court as well. Heck i better be carefull next time i use my dumpy level. ITS GOT A ROTATING LASER , no mercy, 360 degree carnage!!!

The write up in the paper had the judge getting anal over the unloaded gun being presented. The laser bit was the cop shitting himself as he watched it track across the room and land on him.
Probably a fucken scary feeling.

[Max Preload]

When I asked exactly how the cops should have identified themselves. You've since answered it below, sort of anyway.

I also answered that by posing the question "What would you have the person who lives there do?". Your answer seems to be "whatever the unidentified intruder to their home in the middle of the night tells them to".

To my knowledge they had every right to enter the dwelling to ascertain if a crime had been committed. As the judge said, a firearm was the wrong choice to defend himself with. In any case the first rule of firearms is to identify your target isn't it ?

He did identify the target. Identifying your target doesn't mean you need to know everything about them - you just need to know what your target is. He did know: it was the unidentified intruder in his home, uninvited, in the middle of the night.

I never said he had to allow the Police to get close enough to bash him, merely that he should not have pointed the laser DIRECTLY at them. How long does it take to raise the gun again if it wasn't the cops ? A fraction of a second.

So exactly how close do you have to get, in the dark, to identify someone?

The guy should have moved the laser off the officer (after being told too how many times ?) and waited to see the whites of their eyes (and their uniform). If it wasn't the cops then blast away.

Clearly you think it's pretty close.

And the cops don't know if the occupant was the owner or a burglar themselves - a reasonable assumption given that the place appeared broken in to. If the cops had been armed the dude would have been shot. That's clever.

The difference being they had the option of waiting outside in order to safely determine that. But no, like the cowboys they are, they had to barge into an unknown situation. What was the homeowner's option from the top of the stairs when confronted by an unidentified intruder in his home in the dark of night?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crim...ells-homeowner

"I yelled out: `Police, put it down' but got no response so yelled again: `Put it down, put it down. It's the police, you idiot."'

It's still coming from someone that the homeowner hasn't identified to his own satisfaction. Ergo, it's largely just an intruder saying something. Bigger fool you if you believe everything you're told by an unidentified intruder in your own home in the middle of the night. Believing them isn't a risk I'd take.

So who is to say an undercover cop's ID isn't fake as he is arresting someone. Can you shoot him on the assumption his ID could have been fake ? (Like lying)

You can lie on the spot. You can't produce a fake ID on the spot.

Funny but I've never heard of a home invasion where the crooks claim to be cops. Fuck - you're onto something there.........LOL

So if you haven't heard of it, it's never happened and never can happen? I guess we don't need impersonating Police to be a crime then. Fuck, what a strange world you live in.

I don't possess a gun so will never be in the scenario you describe. But if they yelled Police I would make sure of my target before kicking their heads in.

Unless they kicked your head in first while you're farting about 'identifying them from the whites of their eyes. It's just strange that you refuse to extend the courtesy to the home owner when it comes to satisfying his own level of certainty over the identification of intruders to his home.

The AOS are dressed in black, would you point a gun at them in your back yard at night and hope to get away with it ?

This is entirely irrelevant because he was INSIDE HIS HOME not in the yard. And trapped upstairs - he has every right to defend himself, in his own home, against uninvited unidentified intruders until HE is satisfied they are not a threat.

[Deano]

Well his lawyer should be sacked and you defend him for his appeal then, if you feel so strongly about it.

FFS - he had the vantage point upstairs and they weren't advancing.....end of story. Laters.

[scumdog]

The difference being they had the option of waiting outside in order to safely determine that. But no, like the cowboys they are, they had to barge into an unknown situation.

The flip side: "Cops wait for back-up outside home of man while he was stabbed to death by burglar who has not yet been located"


I'm sure you had thought about that before posting your comment eh...

[Indoo]

I also answered that by posing the question "What would you have the person who lives there do?".

Apply some logic and reason to the situation before pointing guns at people or is that a bit too much to ask?

Lets you've just thrown a 100kg statue through a plate glass door in the middle of the night in a heavily urban area and a few minutes later a couple of guys in Police uniform turn up, loudly and repeatedly announce that it's the Police and to put down the gun. Chances are it's probably not those burglars whom have been staking out your house for weeks while dressed up as cops just waiting for you to smash your own window to let them in and then waking you up by yelling out before they enter to rob you blind.

The difference being they had the option of waiting outside in order to safely determine that. But no, like the cowboys they are, they had to barge into an unknown situation.

Yes because they are going to be able to determine that by waiting outside...Gee imagine what would happen if all cops had your overly paranoid and cowardly attitude. The simple fact is logistically it would be impossible to function and cause unnecessary injury or death if it is to be assumed that every time loud noises are heard in the night that its an armed, confused and drunk homeowner smashing his way into his own house rather than a violent domestic, burglary or the forementioned drunk homeowner who managed to cut himself rather badly and is now bleeding to death while the Police wait outside for dog handlers, negotiators and the AOS to respond 'just in case'.

The simple fact is the guy was pissed out of his nut which is why he was unable to comprehend what was right before him, and probably also why he had to be pepper sprayed and forcibly subdued even after 'identifying' his target.

Your argument would have some merit in a different set of circumstances involving sober people making rational and logical decisions, just not this guy.

[Forest]

I can't help thinking that if the police were to strap a laser speed detector to a rifle, then it would probably be illegal to point the contraption at motorists.

Is that the question you were asking?