Greens = numpties.

[jahrasti]

And it take practice to ingrain those skills which you cover soon but we will get to that



Yes what is safely in a high stress situation, hmmm, obviously the basic skills are all that is needed surely.

exactly and how do you know that the basic skills don't exist at the moment?

I dont get you I thought you had respect for the police then you call them popo, and not all engagements are close, correct even the best do miss but not often.

Oh no I called the Police popo and? But they do miss. No matter what you say people miss no matter how good



Here we are the soon I mentioned before, training and practice are not always the same thing, many here can train you how to do a task, however for you to be good at that task you will need practice the more practice the better at it you will be, just is not good enough if we are to have every officer armed and the lack of funds for practice maybe one of the reasons the politicians have said no to the idea

Maybe funds is a reason, only the gobermint can answer that one. Is dry firing or scenario based training counted as practice? both are easy to do dry firing especially.

This is an enlightened response, no really I can see your justification to a valid comment from Scuba_Steve I mean surely to state he does not want to see the NZ police fully armed as they will not get the training (read practice) must be wrong and therefore he inbreeds with family members, but wait did you state the and I quote

Thank you I try my best, I think he is a tool with his anti Police statements with no substance so I thought I would try it and actually I can see the appeal

So in your opinion just is good enough, if this opinion is rampant then we are going down hill fast, with no brakes.

Yes I think it is JUST good enough at the moment. Everything can be improved and should always strive to be improved. But Just also means that it is also good enough at this point in time. This is my opinion and yes I know the saying about opinions. If I thought the training was lacking I would say that on here.

No doubt you will nit pick the above comments

[cowpoos]

Green think registering all firearms would be a good thing 'cos then the cops would know who had what guns when the went to deal with a situation.

Boy, registering guns would have really made the difference to the two cops and the dog in Christchurch a few days ago eh, if those guns had been registered there was no way any of them would have been shot huh!


Bloody Greens, their comments prove that a lot of them are a waste of oxygen....

What should happen...is all ammo that is purchased needs to be picked up from the police station...no matter what it is...slug gun pellets,arrows,shotgun cartridges,etc...

Would allow police to get an eye on volume...and any dodgy people wanting amo for anything....and the administration argument is a no brainer...police take a 10% mark up at least.

[Swoop]

I believe that the firearms training meets the requirement JUST!!. Of coarse more is better though.

Yes some Police may not be the best shots. That I agree with HOWEVER that number is actually quite small. Do Police need more practice? of coarse they do...

This is why I don't want to see the cops with guns, They don't get & won't get the training necessary to use them safety.

Scuba Steve is quite correct here, and appears to be well backed up by jahrasti's comments on the level of training and recurrency training provided to line cops (obviously AOS is different).

Having shot at every range in Auckland except for the police range in south Auckland, I have personally witnessed the levels of damage done to the ranges by police.
Thank goodness they are on their own range now.

[geoffm]

I can't see anything wrong with this concept at all.
So you have to register a firearm. big deal.
Whats the problem you have a full register with what guns are legal in NZ so when you find one that has been stolen, sold illegaly or you have to do proper checks on the person you are selling to.
I would have thought that you cops on here would have been in favour of this for when you rock on up to a house you know what should or shouldn't be there.

IT never worked with registration here in NZ before, It hasn't worked in Canada, despite a billion dollar registry, which is going to be scrapped.
Completely banning handguns in the UK didn't work even, as pistol crime was higher afterwards than before...
Surprisingly enough, criminals don't bother with licenses, and stuff like that, since they are hardly "fit and proper" people as per the Arms Act.
The main thing registration does is provide a list for the Greens to confiscate ore morel likely, since they have never seen a tax they didn't like, tax them out of existence. For that reason alone, registration will fail miserably.

[geoffm]

What should happen...is all ammo that is purchased needs to be picked up from the police station...no matter what it is...slug gun pellets,arrows,shotgun cartridges,etc...

Would allow police to get an eye on volume...and any dodgy people wanting amo for anything....and the administration argument is a no brainer...police take a 10% mark up at least.

I reload my own, I don't buy ammo...
Your argument on ammo quantities is also flawed. Crims don't use much ammo a couple of shots is plenty for holding up the local stop-and rob corner store or doing a hostile business takeover of someones patch.

How much is to much? I went through 250 rounds the other weekend plinking at targets. Would have been more except I ran out. That is a quiet weekend.

[Woodman]

Unfortunately the Green party give environmentalists a bad name with this kind of dum shit.

a lot of them are a pack of academic idealistic fuckwits who should be in the labour Party , NOT the Green Party.

[jahrasti]

Scuba Steve is quite correct here, and appears to be well backed up by jahrasti's comments on the level of training and recurrency training provided to line cops (obviously AOS is different).

Having shot at every range in Auckland except for the police range in south Auckland, I have personally witnessed the levels of damage done to the ranges by police.
Thank goodness they are on their own range now.

Bull shit, I have stated that the training is good enough. I said a small percentage struggle. Big fucken difference.

Just like life not everyone is equal.

What have you seen? dirty cups left around?damaged frames? ever been to a competition shoot (two or three gun shoots etc)

What about club members that abuse the rules? seen plenty of that, but is that ok?

No matter what is said, people on here will use the 'cops cant shoot for shit' line.

Plenty of front line cops can shoot as well as any soldier. What do I base that on? My own obervation pure and simple.

[jahrasti]

How much is to much? I went through 250 rounds the other weekend plinking at targets. Would have been more except I ran out. That is a quiet weekend.

Re loading is the way to go. Dam 'merikens driving the price up.

Did you try buying ammo that the 'merikens would want when the second gulf war kicked off

[JMemonic]

No doubt you will nit pick the above comments

You keep contradicting yourself, you attempt to make a point in on paragraph then contradict in the the next, you must live in the beehive as you talk like a politician, lot of wind and ranting with no real substance. You have little grasp of the concept of sarcasm, please go back and re read my previous reply to you with that in mind, it might become apparent to you the imho your a tool.

[Swoop]

Bull shit, I have stated that the training is good enough. I said a small percentage struggle.

What have you seen? dirty cups left around?damaged frames? ever been to a competition shoot (two or three gun shoots etc)

"It is good enough".
For what? Handling a firearm without shooting yourself in the foot?
What I have seen is the NZ Police showing up on a range that is owned and operated by another entity.
They then proceed to cause damage to the range structure (walls, roofs, etc, etc) with fired rounds.
They then leave, requiring the owners/operators of that range with the damage bill and the negative impressions to newer people taking up shooting sports.

Yes, I have competed in 3-gun. What of it?

[simpy1]

I'm going to be seriously outnumbered here, but I don't think the Greens are all numpties. Yes they have their share of ridiculously idealistic members, but hey if they didn't have a voice in parliament, NZ would probably be much worse off, not just environmentally. And our environment is important for many reasons, including economic ones (tourism).

As for the guns argument, every time some moron says we'd be safer if the cops all wore side arms, I reply with "Yes, then we'd all be safe, just like in the USA". A gun in each car is plenty for NZ. The reason we hear about it so often in the news is because the news loves fearmongering. If I were looking for inspiration for a shooting spree, the news is where I'd start.

I think our current system is pretty good - but how about when you buy a gun, the store keeps an electronic record of the purchase, gun type, perhaps a serial number (stamped into the metal on the gun), and takes a digital photo. Then at least the cops can trace the gun back to where it came from.

[The Pastor]

What should happen...is all ammo that is purchased needs to be picked up from the police station...no matter what it is...slug gun pellets,arrows,shotgun cartridges,etc...

Would allow police to get an eye on volume...and any dodgy people wanting amo for anything....and the administration argument is a no brainer...police take a 10% mark up at least.

what about the people who make their own ammo and im sorry if i don't think that the cops should waste their time running a retail shop....

[The Pastor]

I'm going to be seriously outnumbered here, but I don't think the Greens are all numpties. Yes they have their share of ridiculously idealistic members, but hey if they didn't have a voice in parliament, NZ would probably be much worse off, not just environmentally. And our environment is important for many reasons, including economic ones (tourism).

As for the guns argument, every time some moron says we'd be safer if the cops all wore side arms, I reply with "Yes, then we'd all be safe, just like in the USA". A gun in each car is plenty for NZ. The reason we hear about it so often in the news is because the news loves fearmongering. If I were looking for inspiration for a shooting spree, the news is where I'd start.

I think our current system is pretty good - but how about when you buy a gun, the store keeps an electronic record of the purchase, gun type, perhaps a serial number (stamped into the metal on the gun), and takes a digital photo. Then at least the cops can trace the gun back to where it came from.

10mins with a file can get rid of serial numbers. (which all guns have btw)

[Banditbandit]

I think our current system is pretty good - but how about when you buy a gun, the store keeps an electronic record of the purchase, gun type, perhaps a serial number (stamped into the metal on the gun), and takes a digital photo. Then at least the cops can trace the gun back to where it came from.

When I first got a gun, you had to go to the police with a firearms licence and get a permit to procure a gun. You had to specify whch gun you wanted - .22, .303, .270. Then take that bit of paper to the shop, and buy the gun, go back to the police shop with the gun and register it against your name.

The system may not have been perfect, but it meant the cops had a list of all legally owned firearms in the country.

Godzone seemed a less violent place then (in general terms of criminal and street violence) and bcause of all the other factors it is impossible to say whether dropping that system increased the number of crimes committed with guns ... and the system certainly did not stop crims getting guns ...

The 1963 Basset Road machine Gun murders Jorgensen and Gillies) were commited with a45 calibre Reising submachine gun - a gun which was not thought to be obtainable in NZ - and certainly not legal ... so crims had illegal guns under the old regime ...

No idea what the answer is ... a good start would be to reduce the level of hatred, anger and violence in our society in general ...

I know .. now you're going to accuse me of being a tree-hugging wimping liberal ... I might agree .. it's been many years since I shot ... (ooops .. can't say that here ...)

[Delerium]

You don't watch the news much do you. it seems like evey second item is some one held up some where with a gun.

Where i understand what you mean as being a shooter we will pay and there are already 1000's of guns on the streets but just ignoring the problem will not make it go away and if there is nothing done and it gets worse we will end up like the UK where you can't own any firearm.

At the moment i can go and purchase any firearm then sell it on the blackmarket and there will be no come back on me as there is no way of tracking any weapon purchased. as you know all they do is write it in a book and thats if you buy it from a dealer, private and your lucky if your asked to see a licence.

Cops find some weapon in the wrong hands and unless they know what shop sold it thats where the trail ends. If there was a registry, at least it could be tracked back to see where it should be, or if it had been stolen then they could be charged with recieving at the least.

I know this isn't the great fix that the greens are saying it will be but at least it is a start, and if your worrying about cost then you make it like vehicle rego and only pay when changed over.

Just becuase a few have made the news recently does NOT mean that there are lots occurring. As a percentage of crime it is very small, in the region of 1-3% Firearms crime is not common in nz. Dont be sucked into the media hype.

Registry doesnt work, whats to stop somebody giving it away and saying it was stolen? nothing. whats to stop somebody from saying they destroyed it as it was inoperable and giving it away. nothing. whats to stop it actually being stolen. nothing. in each case the registry is of no help. Google canada gun registry. Yes people are worried about cost. try 2 billion in canada (was meant to cost 10 million) and counting. no wonder they are abandoning it. Have a look into the accuracy of the registry for E, B and C cat firearms in nz. It isnt accurate at all. What benefit did it provide the canadians, australians and the UK, stuff all.