Honda VTR250 89, lurches forward on clutch release

[SS90]

Also asked him about my 03 Fazer thou which has just turned 40, and he said just leave it alone, modern valves are hard, dont wear and alot of expense for no effect.
So he just lost himself probably $500 in work from me, for which I thanked him, and he replied, just keep the bikes running well, regular oil and filter changes every 5K, and hes happy!! Not many around like that these days.
Cheers,
Ken

It never ceases to amaze me that a "good guy" in the industry is the same one that tells people "not to check their valves", because "modern valves are so hard" (etc)

really? what about Titanium valves?

Should we not check those too?

Fuck, this is shit advise, and any mechanic who tells you this is deluded.

For the love of god man, get the clearances checked.

[forkoil]

It never ceases to amaze me that a "good guy" in the industry is the same one that tells people "not to check their valves", because "modern valves are so hard" (etc)

really? what about Titanium valves?

Should we not check those too?

Fuck, this is shit advise, and any mechanic who tells you this is deluded.

For the love of god man, get the clearances checked.

Well this guy has 40 years professional spanner experience, currently semi retired works from home and is trusted enough by a number of race teams to work on their bikes, so I trust his advice. At the risk of offending you, whats your experience?

[SS90]

Well this guy has 40 years professional spanner experience, currently semi retired works from home and is trusted enough by a number of race teams to work on their bikes, so I trust his advice. At the risk of offending you, whats your experience?

Um.... 15 year motorcycle mechanic, South Island 125 cc champion (4th in NZ) 3 years 250GP, built BEARS, CAMS and modern championship winning 4 stroke engines...... currently developing 2 stroke engines for an Austrian firm. (before that 3 years doing the same for a German company.

I say check your valves.

This dude says not.

The manufacturer says to.

You take ya risks.

NZ culture is to embrace the "cheap", and quite often it is not the right thing. Many experienced mechanics have spent years training their customers to spend money on maintanance rather that repair (that us the Kiwi way, only repair it when it is broken)

Particularly with modern Titanium valves, they must be checked.

God, I used to manage a Triumph workshop, the biggest "service" benifit was when you would have a customer come in with 40k on the clock, never checked the valves, so you convince them to do so, and the massive smile on their face when they come back an hour later saying it felt like new.

Modern engines are very sensitive on such things (tight valves alter your valve timing for one thing), and with the modern stuff being "highly strung", every little bit matters.

So, I just don't agree that "modern valves don't need to be checked"

I think that is a nonsence statement, perhaps the poster misheard the mechanic.

I assure you if this guy is building engines for top 600 riders, he will be replacing the valves halfway through every season.

[forkoil]

ss90, OK I respect your experience and background, you came across as angry and abusive, and I dont think Warren deserved it. I didnt mishear him, so I dont know why the advice is so much at odds with yours. It could be that he is saying that the performance loss due to valve and valvetrain wear is way LESS that it used to be years ago, and that adjustment on road bikes wont make THAT much difference.You are saying that it does. We are cheap arsed because we have to be in these times (I've been out of work since made redundant in July last year, and I'm in a relatively well supported industry - IT development), and also because of our fix it however you can number 8 culture. Which cant be much of a disadvantage because we (you) are highly respected in the international race scene as spannermen.
Anyway, all that side,what about Warrens other comment about modern oils, being that they are a con, keep away from synthetic oils and use the generic "modern car" oil from supercheap (there we go again) or warehouse?

[bogan]

i'd agree with ss90, its just a check so can do no harm, and if they are out of spec it'll do some good! depending on how modern the bike is its half or a days job + a set of feeler gauges.

Not too sure on the oils, but there are the likes of motul 5100 (what i run) developed specifically for bike with wet clutches, its a semi synthetic which i think is better for the older bikes. Also, I am reminded of a dyno day we had where one bike was a bit smoky and low on power, the mech immediately asked what oil it was and the guy said castrol gtx or some car oil...

[F5 Dave]

oh gosh - please not an oil debate, 1/2 the internet is consumed with it.

I've read in some mags stories of shops just ignoring valve checks, cleaning the cam cover & still charging for it, apparently more prevalent in the UK where there are dealerships that won't work on bikes older than 6 years or whatnot so it's never a problem to them.

An easy risk to take if it's not your bike. If it is I'd check it. Some bikes settle in & seem to stay there. Some don't. The more performance orientated the more the stress.


On the easy bikes I've just hooked te cover off & had a measure. On bikes where I didn't have access to replacement shims I've stripped tank etc off & just paid for adjust (if required).

Silly things anyway.

[SS90]

ss90, OK I respect your experience and background, you came across as angry and abusive, and I dont think Warren deserved it. I didnt mishear him, so I dont know why the advice is so much at odds with yours. It could be that he is saying that the performance loss due to valve and valvetrain wear is way LESS that it used to be years ago, and that adjustment on road bikes wont make THAT much difference.You are saying that it does. We are cheap arsed because we have to be in these times (I've been out of work since made redundant in July last year, and I'm in a relatively well supported industry - IT development), and also because of our fix it however you can number 8 culture. Which cant be much of a disadvantage because we (you) are highly respected in the international race scene as spannermen.
Anyway, all that side,what about Warrens other comment about modern oils, being that they are a con, keep away from synthetic oils and use the generic "modern car" oil from supercheap (there we go again) or warehouse?

Such is the case when writing in a forum I am learning.

I suspect that perhaps the Mechanic was mis quoted?

Experience tells me that if someone was to leave their valve clearances unchecked on a high revving 600 or 1000, serious problems would result.

Perhaps if the bike was a one owner, touring, water cooled 2 valve per cylinder bike, that was only run on the open road, at 100km/h, you could get away with skipping a valve clearance check or two during it's life.

Don't forget modern 4 cylinder valve stems are as thin as you can get away with, and they do stretch (I hate to get technical in a silly way, but just think of how many times a valve opens and closes, accelerates and decelerates etc just at idle, in one minute, let alone over 40,000 km, at an average of 100km/h/5,000 RPM)!