So we all know how unprofitable it is to sheep farm atm

[pete376403]

Balderdash.

Which part do you disagree with?
That it is water injected is fact, and not just plain water either:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...da03879e19931a

(this is a link to a US site but water injection of NZ meat was being discussed on National Radio not too long ago)

[Hitcher]

Which part do you disagree with?
That it is water injected is fact, and not just plain water either:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...da03879e19931a

No New Zealand beef or lamb processing company is injecting water into their products prior to sale. That's the part I'm disagreeing with.

[slowpoke]

It really pisses me off when sheep and beef farmers moan about farm gate prices. The meat industry they've got is the industry that they want. There's nothing they love more than several buyers lining up to buy their sheep and cattle. This farm gate marketplace is spectacularly successful at turning processors into volume driven rather than value driven operators. They have nothing left to invest in new product development, marketing strategies or other means of strengthening their market proposition because they have to pay 5c a kg more than their competitor on the day if they want to kill those animals.

Sheep and beef farmers are capitalists when prices are high and socialists when they're low. They've had longer to get their shit together than have their cousins the dairy farmers. They've also had some purple patches when prices for meat and wool (remember than now defunct industry that 30 years ago was New Zealand's third-largest earner of foreign exchange?) have been mind-numblingly high, and others when they have been bailed out by the New Zealand taxpayer to the tune of $1 million a day.

Strategies have been tabled before. Some have been extremely well thought out but have failed because of parochial pigheadedness. I predict that Beef+Lamb's latest initiative will fail for the same reason. This is a shame because New Zealand can grow more profitable land-based products than cows and pine trees.

To use your own description: balderdash.

They're screwed 'cos there are basically only 2 supermarket chains buying any great volumes. The farmers are victims of the lack of competition. The supermarket chains can give each other a nod and a wink and set humoungous margins with impunity. They're in the business of making money not selling product. If they can sell less and make more why would they do any different?

[jafar]

No New Zealand beef or lamb processing company is injecting water into their products prior to sale. That's the part I'm disagreeing with.

It is well known that the pork industry injects their product with water, so the idea of the beef & sheep processors doing the same isn't that far fetched. I'd like to see some proof on this argument either way.

[TimeOut]

Though we agree on that.

I third that.

It's idiots making false claims that don't help

[Paul in NZ]

You can eat meat? Who woulda thunk?

[Grubber]

About one third of what the customer pays is the retailer's margin. If everybody else in the supply chain clips the ticket, as they should, then it's not hard to figure out what the farm gate price should be.

It really pisses me off when sheep and beef farmers moan about farm gate prices. The meat industry they've got is the industry that they want. There's nothing they love more than several buyers lining up to buy their sheep and cattle. This farm gate marketplace is spectacularly successful at turning processors into volume driven rather than value driven operators. They have nothing left to invest in new product development, marketing strategies or other means of strengthening their market proposition because they have to pay 5c a kg more than their competitor on the day if they want to kill those animals.

Sheep and beef farmers are capitalists when prices are high and socialists when they're low. They've had longer to get their shit together than have their cousins the dairy farmers. They've also had some purple patches when prices for meat and wool (remember than now defunct industry that 30 years ago was New Zealand's third-largest earner of foreign exchange?) have been mind-numblingly high, and others when they have been bailed out by the New Zealand taxpayer to the tune of $1 million a day.

Strategies have been tabled before. Some have been extremely well thought out but have failed because of parochial pigheadedness. I predict that Beef+Lamb's latest initiative will fail for the same reason. This is a shame because New Zealand can grow more profitable land-based products than cows and pine trees.

Have to disagree with most of that. I have been in the industry and i know that as everything else in this country, that the price the farmer gets paid is totally reflective of what the meat industry gets on the export market. The person that clips the ticket on the way through is the exporter big time. this is why you pay dearly in the supermarket for lamb. Simply because the export price is so high. There was various plans devised over the years to set up independent export companies that work direct with the farmer and all have failed due to large export companies such as Canterbury Meats etc. It's been like this for centuries and as most industries , will probably be like this for many more.
Take a look at the humble 2 litre milk. How much do you pay for that? It can be totally reflective of what fontera makes on milk products over seas. In the dairy framers case, this can ammount to larger payouts for the year but is still no where near reflective of what it costs them to produce that 2 litre of milk.
It's like anything, if your not directly involved you won't know.

[danchop]

No New Zealand beef or lamb processing company is injecting water into their products prior to sale. That's the part I'm disagreeing with.

spose you also believe all supermarkets sell nz only meat too

[marie_speeds]

When sheep have been laying on their sides for a long time after falling over they have to be leaned up against a fence when you stand them up again to stop then falling over again. That's so funny and probably unprofitable too....

A friend was down in the Gisborne area last month and on the side of the road were boxes of free Kiwifruit. Turns out the grower was being paid 8cents a kg by the supermarkets but was required to pay the freight costs to get to the supermarkets. In the end the grower just decided to give the fruit away for free because the freight costs would have caused him to be out of pocket. Friend paid the grower for the box just to help him out...

[T.W.R]

It's been like this for centuries and as most industries , will probably be like this for many more.

1882 was the date of the 1st lamb exports.... so 128yrs not centuries

Take a look at the humble 2 litre milk. How much do you pay for that? It can be totally reflective of what fontera makes on milk products over seas. In the dairy framers case, this can ammount to larger payouts for the year but is still no where near reflective of what it costs them to produce that 2 litre of milk.
It's like anything, if your not directly involved you won't know.

production costs have stayed relatively the same as they were 30 odd years ago when a 600ml bottle cost 20 something cents, inflation costs haven't increased 400%+ in that time.
Fonterra's expense at buying up farms in Uruguay & other South American countires contribute to us paying more.
Thanks to an ultimate prize prick John Roadley who was a founder of Fonterra and one of the most despised farmers in the Rakaia area back in the 80s

When sheep have been laying on their sides for a long time after falling over they have to be leaned up against a fence when you stand them up again to stop then falling over again. That's so funny and probably unprofitable too....

lol seed drunkeness not that bloody funny when you're ploughing paddocks and the stupid damn things fall into the furrow and you have stop every round to move the buggers getting them to run though is a hoot..... the last larger waltz on a mass scale

[Grubber]

1882 was the date of the 1st lamb exports.... so 128yrs not centuriy


production costs have stayed relatively the same as they were 30 odd years ago when a 600ml bottle cost 20 something cents, inflation costs haven't increased 400%+ in that time.
Fonterra's expense at buying up farms in Uruguay & other South American countires contribute to us paying more.
Thanks to an ultimate prize prick John Roadley who was a founder of Fonterra and one of the most despised farmers in the Rakaia area back in the 80s

Production costs have not stayed the same in actual fact. Wages alone have gone up some 400%.
Disagree on the farm purchases....export pricing has the largest effect on the price of milk on the shelf. This comes from someone who has been in the business.

lol seed drunkeness not that bloody funny when you're ploughing paddocks and the stupid damn things fall into the furrow and you have stop every round to move the buggers getting them to run though is a hoot..... the last larger waltz on a mass scale

I think you should have been able to get my point regarding the century bit..

Production costs have increased over 350% in the past 30 years and there is data to coincide with this. The amount they earn off the exports is very much the reason you pay so dearly for the humble 2 litre. There is also plenty of data relating to this also. I personally don't have the time to write it all up now, but it is there.

Sleepy sickness actually is what it is called. It's caused by the lack of Nutrition in the last 4 weeks of pregnancy thus causing the body to utilize their fat to provide nutrition and the side effect of this is the production of ketone's which is toxic and this causes the stagger effect known as sleepy sickness. Most common is from being cast (rolled on side and not able to get to feet) for too long thus causing them to wander sideways for a while till they get there brain in gear again , so to speak. Also from someone who knows!

[Swoop]

The farmer must think their woolly beasts' are worth nothing. If they were valuable, then they would have decent fences to stop them wandering onto the roads...

[T.W.R]

Sleepy sickness actually is what it is called. It's caused by the lack of Nutrition in the last 4 weeks of pregnancy thus causing the body to utilize their fat to provide nutrition and the side effect of this is the production of ketone's which is toxic and this causes the stagger effect known as sleepy sickness. Most common is from being cast (rolled on side and not able to get to feet) for too long thus causing them to wander sideways for a while till they get there brain in gear again , so to speak. Also from someone who knows!

That funny because after a few years working as an agricultural contractor the majority of farmers I worked for always called it seed drunkeness due to a fermentation stage that occurs during crop growth

[Grumph]

Ran into an exec from Silver Fern farms the other day - in the cardiac ward so I assume it's a stressful job...... He told me they can't get enough lamb for their export markets. This I assume is what's driving supermarket prices up.
We agreed that probably the main reason (other than dairy conversions) the flock numbers are down & dropping is the low wool price. Half of what the cocky used to get from a sheep was the wool return - with this gone they have to get more for the meat - or go dairy...
If TWR is indeed around Charing Cross he should know all about this - just look out the window.

[T.W.R]

If TWR is indeed around Charing Cross he should know all about this - just look out the window.

bloody foggy here at the moment so can't see naff all I was living and working in the heart of sheep & crop farming around Rakaia for nearly 20yrs and worked for one of the largest Agricultural Contractors in the district as Head operator for a few of those