Islamisation

[avgas]

Ka kōrero koe tēnā kōrero i te reo o te whenua? Kaori ? Ka whakaaro ahau, kaori i whakauru nga "kiwis".

Yes and if you look at history's text books it has been taught in schools as a COMPULSORY subject for about 35 years.
So being born here and brought through this education system while I can therefore qualify myself as Kiwi, my argument is stronger than that.
I believe people who have chosen to adapt NZ multicultural environment. Are kiwi.
Note that I am not saying at any point that Maori = kiwi or kiwi = Maori.
The 2 are interdependent of each other just are those with Chinese/Mongol heritage in the Russian boarder lands.
Note also that New Zealand English (particularly spoken) actually has a decreasing amount of the original tongue in it. So it too is an individual language.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

Here's an interesting thought, According to the Torah, which is the foundation chapters of the Bible and the Koran, we are created in the image of God. This being so,

The bible says God (singular) and then in our (which is plural) image...

Then God said "Let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness"

Your soul is also genderless if you believe in spituality... (not regilion)

[Crim]

Mosques, churches and temples are all beautiful buildings. It's the twits who use them that are the problem. Religion is not a facade to hide behind. You are what you do, religious or not. This pontificating is thirsty work. I'm off to the pub, Cheers

yep totally agree - have often thought to myself "aren't religious wars just a fight about who has got the best imaginary friend?"

[oldrider]

yep totally agree - have often thought to myself "aren't religious wars just a fight about who has got the best imaginary friend?"

True! Undeniably logical thought!

[Banditbandit]

Yes and if you look at history's text books it has been taught in schools as a COMPULSORY subject for about 35 years.
So being born here and brought through this education system while I can therefore qualify myself as Kiwi, my argument is stronger than that.
I believe people who have chosen to adapt NZ multicultural environment. Are kiwi.
Note that I am not saying at any point that Maori = kiwi or kiwi = Maori.
The 2 are interdependent of each other just are those with Chinese/Mongol heritage in the Russian boarder lands.
Note also that New Zealand English (particularly spoken) actually has a decreasing amount of the original tongue in it. So it too is an individual language.

Kua kōrero koe ae, ēngari, kaore e kōrero koe i te reo o te Ao Marama ... ka korero koe i te reo o te Po. No reira ka whakautu au i te reo o te po.

Did anyone ask the indigenous people if they wanted to become bi-cultural? The Treaty is between the Crown and the hapū ... and can be read as the conditions that British subjects can come and live here ... who asked about imigration from other countries ?

[oldrider]

200 years and Pakeha have still not integrated into New Zealand culture ... sounds like a very familiar complaint right there ...

Well, maybe if you honour the treaty...."He Iwi Tahi Tatou" - We are now one people....you might feel differently about that!

Works OK for me!

[rustyrobot]

I tēnei wa ka heke mai nei ka whakaoranga ngā rangatiratanga o ngā iwi katoa.

Ko tērā te tumunkao e hoa, ko tērā te tumanako! Ka hurihuri tonu te ao ne? E tautoko ana ahau i tōu kōrero ki te ao Po. Hei aha, ā te wa... ka po, ka ao, ka awatea. Ahakoa he pākehā tuturu ahau, ka kimi ahau ki te ara tika.

The thing I never get with religion is why it is so endlessly important to push it on everyone else. Sure, you know the one true path to eternal bliss, good for you, why the need to convert the rest of humanity. Aren't there only 144,000 places in heaven anyway? Christian, hindu, muslim, whatever - enjoy your sundays (satudays, whichever days) stuck in the church, but don't begrudge us our days of play.

[rustyrobot]

Well, maybe if you honour the treaty...."He Iwi Tahi Tatou" - We are now one people....you might feel differently about that!

Works OK for me!

Works okay for you if we are all one people in the way you want it right? Well, no surprise there. At which point did 'we' make a decision what this 'one people' looked like? If I came to your house wouldn't you expect me to follow the rules for YOUR house? Even if we were going to move in together, surely we would work out the house rules together. It would be mightily unfair for one person to decide all the rules of the house, would it not?

[Oscar]

I know. Al Shabaab is now well set up in Somalia. A lot of the terrorists came out of Afganistan to fight in a new country.
Keep an eye on the islamic radicals in this location... things will get even hotter in Somalia.

Al Shabaab is indigenous to Somalia.
The Taliban are in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Things are shit in Somalia because they have no central government - not really a religious thing (just a nice place for terrorists).

[avgas]

Did anyone ask the indigenous people if they wanted to become bi-cultural? The Treaty is between the Crown and the hapū ... and can be read as the conditions that British subjects can come and live here ... who asked about imigration from other countries ?

You do not have to become bi-cultural. But regardless the world spins, and changes with parameters outside your control. You assume that pakeha/laowai/gaijan/buitenlander/palangi... wanted to assume the roles given to them. But the fact of the matter is that they moved to NZ to become a part of it. Many adopted the local culture - which had evolved past that of simply Maori to something completely different that the world has never seen.
The treaty is between the crown and hapū, but it is not the only arrangement between Maori and New Zealand/Aotearoa.
To simply believe so is rather naive. Especially considering that written language was a new concept for Maori at the time.
Its kind of like saying "No religion existed before the Bible - as its the oldest book", where facts as well as theories prove otherwise.
Also it is worth noting that many of whom are considered 'Pakeha' are actually of non-British decent. So applying the term Pakeha is like calling all Maori, from Hawaiki, Havaiki, Havai'i, or 'Avaiki...... aka Polynesian.

[avgas]

Works okay for you if we are all one people in the way you want it right? Well, no surprise there. At which point did 'we' make a decision what this 'one people' looked like? If I came to your house wouldn't you expect me to follow the rules for YOUR house? Even if we were going to move in together, surely we would work out the house rules together. It would be mightily unfair for one person to decide all the rules of the house, would it not?

Actually that is how NZ laws ARE made.
Very little of it comes from Brittan.......and a big chuck actually comes from the Maori version of the treaty.
Not only that - but with more Maori in parliament than ever before, new laws should reflect more in Maori ideals. Well that is the theory anyway - just like anyone else in parliament, there is no stopping greed. Regardless of culture - greed exists.

[rustyrobot]

Actually that is how NZ laws ARE made.
Very little of it comes from Brittan.......and a big chuck actually comes from the Maori version of the treaty.
Not only that - but with more Maori in parliament than ever before, new laws should reflect more in Maori ideals. Well that is the theory anyway - just like anyone else in parliament, there is no stopping greed. Regardless of culture - greed exists.

And it would work well if our laws were totally recreated. But they were transplanted here from the UK and have slowly mutated over time, with Maori input only over the last few decades. Besides, the entire (Westminster) system of governance was dumped onto the country.

And with this system, whoever you vote for a politician always gets in. Dammit.

I couldn't agree with you more about the greed.

[R-Soul]

Ae, tika tōu kōrero! Pera hoki tōku whakaaro. Ko tō rātou tikanga anake te tikanga pai ki a rātou? Ko wai i tu ki te kōrero 'kotahi te tangata i te whenua ne"? Ko John Key? Ehara au i te tangata rite tonu ki a ia!

ah hell, and Babel Fish doesn't do Maori...

[R-Soul]

Al Shabaab is indigenous to Somalia.
The Taliban are in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Things are shit in Somalia because they have no central government - not really a religious thing (just a nice place for terrorists).

yes, Somalia comes about as a result of no or very weak central government, resulting in a power vacuum fille dhappily by warlords, and then religious men attempting to bring some sort of order by any law - even sharia. But as soon as a person has any sort of power, they seem to get a thirst for it, and then instead of bringing law and order, they become 'above the law'.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely...

[avgas]

And it would work well if our laws were totally recreated. But they were transplanted here from the UK and have slowly mutated over time, with Maori input only over the last few decades. Besides, the entire (Westminster) system of governance was dumped onto the country.
And with this system, whoever you vote for a politician always gets in. Dammit.
I couldn't agree with you more about the greed.

Actually a lot of that has changed too.
And I would be surprised to see many laws changed if we re-wrote the book.
Like I said before. New Zealand has changed a lot in the last 100 years.