Islamisation

[SS90]

More of a reference for examples of different cultures and what is acceptable..... He would not have gone to court in Turkey.

[PrincessBandit]

More of a reference for examples of different cultures and what is acceptable..... He would not have gone to court in Turkey.

I googled (yes, on the almighty youtube) videos for kolbasti dancing and was surprised that it looked nothing like the "pose" on the net of the man and wife demonstrating a move from it.

All the clips I saw showed firstly same gender dancing (girl/girl or blokes) i.e. I didn't see any men and women doing it together, and secondly there was no physical contact between any of the participants at all. Now, I'm all accepting of the fact that there might be vast differences in the way this dance is performed, but found it a little strange that their "pose" didn't match anything I saw. And further, if indeed he had bent down to catch his wife as she supposedly slipped and twisted her ankle, why was it captioned as a demonstration from their dance?

Of course papers are notorious for mismatching captions and photos, but still food for thought.

If he wouldn't have been in court in Turkey for it, is that because they have more lenient laws on what is considered assault?

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

whether wrtien right or wrtien wrong ... just remember, it the winner of the wars that usually write the history books...

[mashman]

whether wrtien right or wrtien wrong ... just remember, it the winner of the wars that usually RE-write the history books...

fixed for ya

[mashman]

Wonder if Ze Germans will follow the French example ...

"Merkel weighed in for the first time in a blistering debate sparked by a central bank board member saying the country was being made "more stupid" by poorly educated and unproductive Muslim migrants.

"Multikulti", the concept that "we are now living side by side and are happy about it," does not work, Merkel told a meeting of younger members of her conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU) party at Potsdam near Berlin."

the rest of the article...

[avgas]

Culture should not be basis of religion. Yes the 2 intersect, but one should not be completely inside the other.
As soon as it does, it degrades out own humanity and changes us to more "machines running code".

Likewise there will always have to be some form of compromise. For different people to co-exist, this has nothing to do with either religion or culture. Contrary to many understandings compromise has nothing to do with what you gain, and everything to do with what you lose.
Everyone loses in a compromise, which is why a compromise is the only way forward for anything.
Many do not understand this and assume that because they can have their cake and eat it too......that this will continue indefinitely.
Misunderstanding #2 - Nothing is indefinite. Whole civilization, have fallen in the past.
All that have failed to compromise in one way or another.

[mashman]

Culture should not be basis of religion. Yes the 2 intersect, but one should not be completely inside the other.
As soon as it does, it degrades out own humanity and changes us to more "machines running code".

Likewise there will always have to be some form of compromise. For different people to co-exist, this has nothing to do with either religion or culture. Contrary to many understandings compromise has nothing to do with what you gain, and everything to do with what you lose.
Everyone loses in a compromise, which is why a compromise is the only way forward for anything.
Many do not understand this and assume that because they can have their cake and eat it too......that this will continue indefinitely.
Misunderstanding #2 - Nothing is indefinite. Whole civilization, have fallen in the past.
All that have failed to compromise in one way or another.

Compromise ... As individuals, or small groups, I agree... but as a larger collective, a government for instance, compromise is just a PC expression for Capitulation... their way or the highway... it's bitterly dissapointing given the understanding and education we have these days and unfortunately Merkel et al will use existing religion and cultural tenstions to stir their country... it can't end well.

[marie_speeds]

it can't end well.

Usually with a bang....

[MisterD]

Merkel et al will use existing religion and cultural tenstions to stir their country... it can't end well.

To be fair, Merkel has to be seen to address this, or she's toast...tricky line to walk though given what happened last time the Germans started blaming an ethnic minority for everything.

[Winston001]

Culture should not be basis of religion. Yes the 2 intersect, but one should not be completely inside the other.
As soon as it does, it degrades out own humanity and changes us to more "machines running code".

Likewise there will always have to be some form of compromise. For different people to co-exist, this has nothing to do with either religion or culture. Contrary to many understandings compromise has nothing to do with what you gain, and everything to do with what you lose.
Everyone loses in a compromise, which is why a compromise is the only way forward for anything.
Many do not understand this and assume that because they can have their cake and eat it too......that this will continue indefinitely.
Misunderstanding #2 - Nothing is indefinite. Whole civilization, have fallen in the past.
All that have failed to compromise in one way or another.

A thoughtful post.

Not sure that I entirely agree though. Religion is often larger than the culture which embraces it, and provides a set of rules (moral guidelines) to conduct an orderly life.

One of the notable features of Islam is that it transcends the local culture. Moslems in Indonesia, Britain, Iraq etc all live in different ethnic cultures but they share the brotherhood of Islam. Thus we have bombings in these disparate countries but the common bond of the religion (in its extreme minority form) ties these acts to a global meaning.

As for compromise - the possibilities are so wide that the word is virtually meaningless. The answer is for each of us and our wider society to agree on basic standards. For example, female circumcision might be culturally acceptable to some Moslems but not to us. No compromise - its not allowed. Similarly Pacific Island cultures allegedly accept family violence as normal. We don't - no compromise.

Where it gets tricky is the subtle stuff such as Moslems wearing the hajib. Its harmless so why should we interfere?

[MisterD]

Where it gets tricky is the subtle stuff such as Moslems wearing the hajib. Its harmless so why should we interfere?

I don't think anyone's complaining about anything that's just a visible sign of someone's religion, does anyone get upset about Jewish men and their Kippahs, or even the big hats and ringlets in Stamford Hill?

The issue about burkas is different - personally I wouldn't ban their wearing, but I would also allow business owners such as shops or banks to exercise their property rights and ban wearers from their premises if they so wish.

[mashman]

To be fair, Merkel has to be seen to address this, or she's toast...tricky line to walk though given what happened last time the Germans started blaming an ethnic minority for everything.

true and that didn't end well either... I was watching Merkel and some of the interviews and reactions on CNN this morning (t'was the only channel worth watching at the time) and the people on the street had a much more realistic view imho. They said that the integration will take time, language barriers being the killer, but that it's working, and they accept the cultural and national diversities that todays "migrations" throw up. It seems to be the politicians that like to make a meal of it, using excuses like protecting the jobs of their people, protecting the future growth of the country etc... the usual scare mongering crap that wins "national" votes . I fear it's just another issue that's been thrown into the too hard basket. True, she does have to do something about it, but burying her head in the sand, oh it hasn't worked etc..., isn't exactly addressing the issue.

The issue about burkas is different - personally I wouldn't ban their wearing, but I would also allow business owners such as shops or banks to exercise their property rights and ban wearers from their premises if they so wish.

bit like being asked to remove your crash helmet when going into banks etc...? like back in blighty

[MisterD]

True, she does have to do something about it, but burying her head in the sand, oh it hasn't worked etc..., isn't exactly addressing the issue.

The trouble is, as soon as you try to address the issue and raise serious debate about the success or failure of "multiculturalism" you get shut down with cries of "racist" and "facist".

I don't believe it's been completely one or the other, by the way. Muslims in Oldham, well that's a failure for sure but Jamaicans in Finsbury Park are the other side of the coin.