That 90 day employment thing

[FJRider]

Yup. A great one sided piece of research to highlight how successful the law change was. No doubt the 36% that were chosen to comment were hand picked to give positive results. Tin foil hat eh

More likely ... the 36% that "participated" had the least in the way of useful information to offer, but the most to say. And because they "participated" ... their input was used.

Similar methods are used to gather statistics ....

[FJRider]

Oh I reckon the new 90 day rule is a bit of a sledge hammer to crack a walnut kinda approach...

And while I don't have the outlook that 'mean nasty employers' is a common thing, the ones who want to take advantage of an employee are more empowered now. Have seen it first hand, and to be fair I've also seen plenty of useless employees remain in a job when the employer is unsure of whether to put them thru the process to ditch them...

A walnut ... maybe not .... but there's a few nuts out there that need that sledgehammer. It's having the tools in the shed if you need them.

Mostly ... the employer is unsure if the process of ditching an employee is worth the hassle. Regardless of "time served" ...

[Oscar]

I love the way that the wacko left and Mashman the Sheep portray this as employers v. employees.

How many of you have had to work with an incompetent, aggressive, lazy or downright dangerous co-worker and thought "..why doesn't someone 86 this wanker?".
I have seen any number of absolutely useless teachers who are next to impossible to get rid of.

[Ocean1]

How many of you have had to work with an incompetent, aggressive, lazy or downright dangerous co-worker and thought "..why doesn't someone 86 this wanker?".

Someone I work with occasionally rekons the growth in unemployed figures are the employers fault.

I asked him what he'd think if he had to rely on others work ethics to get by, if I owned his house and unless he paid me a grand a week I'd arsehole him outa there. How many of the people he personally knew would he hire to help him survive.

Maybe half a dozen, was the reply. He hadn't seen the link between the two situations at all, didn't really understand the question. Still doesn't.

[mashman]

More likely ... the 36% that "participated" had the least in the way of useful information to offer, but the most to say. And because they "participated" ... their input was used.

Similar methods are used to gather statistics ....

heh heh heh, that sounds familiar for some reason...

I guess it doesn't really matter does it. Was employer protection strengthened? Nah, I can't see it. Was the employee position weakened, yes, very much so. The end.

[avgas]

Honest Unions, if they still exist, can help you navigate the minefield at a minimum of cost, without involving tribunals etc...

Said it before but will rephrase it again.
They don't. They never had.

If you offer a position of power to whomever sticks their hand up......have a guess what personalities stick their hands up.
Unions have caused more harm that good in the world. Even if they are their for the employees you will NEVER see a union fall before the people they are protecting.

Case and point mine workers in Africa recently. I have it on good word that the unions were discussing the NEXT protest as the miners fell.

People need to realize that this is their lives. When they start working they need to be in control of their own destiny. No one will help you out, no one will hold your hand. Your big kids now.
Especially in NZ where you can quit your job and go on a benefit. Seems crazy there are unions here - why stick around in a job where no one likes you?
As soon as people learn these simple concepts the unions are worthless to them. As they are to me.
There is more than one job in NZ.

[oneofsix]

Said it before but will rephrase it again.
They don't. They never had.

If you offer a position of power to whomever sticks their hand up......have a guess what personalities stick their hands up.
Unions have caused more harm that good in the world. Even if they are their for the employees you will NEVER see a union fall before the people they are protecting.

Case and point mine workers in Africa recently. I have it on good word that the unions were discussing the NEXT protest as the miners fell.

People need to realize that this is their lives. When they start working they need to be in control of their own destiny. No one will help you out, no one will hold your hand. Your big kids now.
Especially in NZ where you can quit your job and go on a benefit. Seems crazy there are unions here - why stick around in a job where no one likes you?
As soon as people learn these simple concepts the unions are worthless to them. As they are to me.
There is more than one job in NZ.

what a load of

[mashman]

Said it before but will rephrase it again.
They don't. They never had.

If you offer a position of power to whomever sticks their hand up......have a guess what personalities stick their hands up.
Unions have caused more harm that good in the world. Even if they are their for the employees you will NEVER see a union fall before the people they are protecting.

Case and point mine workers in Africa recently. I have it on good word that the unions were discussing the NEXT protest as the miners fell.

People need to realize that this is their lives. When they start working they need to be in control of their own destiny. No one will help you out, no one will hold your hand. Your big kids now.
Especially in NZ where you can quit your job and go on a benefit. Seems crazy there are unions here - why stick around in a job where no one likes you?
As soon as people learn these simple concepts the unions are worthless to them. As they are to me.
There is more than one job in NZ.

I've heard the same story from my mum, hmmmmm, anyway, unions are falling as they are pushed out of the workplace in one way or another... I'd hardly call that a positive thing given that that leaves employers (yes the bad bad bad evil employers ) to do what the fuck they want in regards to terms and conditions for workers. As you say, if an employee doesn't like it, they can always leave. Brilliant attitude and a wonderful way to embue the workforce to be productive and disenfranchise the working population.

I read about the platinum mine incident yesterday. They wanted more money and so went on strike, I have no problem with that (have you seen the price of platinum?). You don't need a union for a workforce to come to that course of action.

People do realise that this is their life and by no means are they in control of their own destiny where they are an employee. Sure if you're a good employee and you have a good employer you will be financially rewarded (I've known 2 in 20+ years)... but that does not guarantee you your position, especially when a business is down to shedding numbers to save money. Get rid of 5 that cost 200k or get rid of 2 that saves 200k?

The unions give people the knowledge with which to "fight" their employer and the strength in numbers not to become a casualty as you go tete a tete with the employer on important issues. I ain't saying that they are perfect by any means and if I was a tin foil hat type fella I'd say that they were infiltrated for the specific purpose of disbanding them. I'd rather they were there, even with their imperfections.

There ain't always another job.

[Flip]

It works both ways.

I started a job as the chief engineer at a Chch engineering company, a day latter I was the H+S manager, a day later I was working in Wellington, a day latter I was the business development manager. After 7 days I had enough and told the company that I was not able to perform all the duties they wanted me to do and I used the 90 day trial period to quit the position.

If you don't like the 90 day thing remember you (probably) voted a centre right wing goverment in.

[avgas]

There ain't always another job.

If that is the case then its down to "suck it up like a big boy".

Too many soft cocks think that the world owes them something. It owes you jack. If you want something - the only person stopping you getting it (in NZ anyway) is you.

As for the unions being a collective force to be reckoned with, its the workers who have that power. Unions are just another thing to pay off. The smart unions know this.

SFWU have doubled in the last 10 years.......but I don't see Macca's employees paychecks double in the last 10 years.
Not to mention the number of ports/meatworks/metalworks/smelters.......

SAVE US UNIONS, SAVE US......hey where the fuck did they go? Why are they over there with all the money?

[mashman]

If that is the case then its down to "suck it up like a big boy".

Too many soft cocks think that the world owes them something. It owes you jack. If you want something - the only person stopping you getting it (in NZ anyway) is you.

As for the unions being a collective force to be reckoned with, its the workers who have that power. Unions are just another thing to pay off. The smart unions know this.

SFWU have doubled in the last 10 years.......but I don't see Macca's employees paychecks double in the last 10 years.
Not to mention the number of ports/meatworks/metalworks/smelters.......

SAVE US UNIONS, SAVE US......hey where the fuck did they go? Why are they over there with all the money?

oh if only we were all like you.

And plenty of others that can't get into well paid work to pay their way... but that's their own fault? short of murdering someone and then applying for their job, what would you have them do to make your life so much more comfortable?

The workers do have the power and I agree that the unions aren't overly necessary, but the workers have enough on their plate, what with jumping from job to job (maybe not having the wherewithall) to soak up every process and important piece of legislation that pertains to their rights. Surely if the union was a bunch useless fat cat bludgers, no one would pay the dues?

There are downsides to any power structure and it always seems to come down to money. Tis a shame that it's the good honest employee that bears the brunt... after all employees are just hired help and shouldn't need to have their rights protected.

[scumdog]

If that is the case then its down to "suck it up like a big boy".

Too many soft cocks think that the world owes them something. It owes you jack. If you want something - the only person stopping you getting it (in NZ anyway) is you. ?

Dead right there.

That and this 21st century attitude 'It's not my fault' is what anchors a lot of people.

[mashman]

Dead right there.

That and this 21st century attitude 'It's not my fault' is what anchors a lot of people.

It's also promoted by insurance companies and legal advisers. Deny all liability and make someone prove it The 21st century attitude is no different than the 10th century attitude... it's still a case of, oh they don't do anything of value in my perception (even if they are working), why bother giving them more than I think they need. Brilliant and Ahem, baaaaaaaa

[short-circuit]

If that is the case then its down to "suck it up like a big boy".

Too many soft cocks think that the world owes them something. It owes you jack. If you want something - the only person stopping you getting it (in NZ anyway) is you.

Just pulled this out of the Welfare support and drug testing thread....

Because apparently people believe its their right to be unemployable.........
Fuck knows who told them that.

So which is it?

a) Too bad there's no jobs (because people like avgas support the economic system responsible) suck it up

or is it -

b) you've got no right to be on the dole (cause it's such a privilege), get off your arse and work (in a non-existent job)

[scumdog]

It's also promoted by insurance companies and legal advisers. Deny all liability and make someone prove it The 21st century attitude is no different than the 10th century attitude... it's still a case of, oh they don't do anything of value in my perception (even if they are working), why bother giving them more than I think they need. Brilliant and Ahem, baaaaaaaa

Nup, I have noticed a definite attitude swing in the last 15 or so year, back before that it was common to hear somebody say "I fucked-up"

Now it's "Well it's not MY fault they/it/he should have....(name your favourite 'out')

One of the early '21st century attitude' experience that made me smirk was "Well it's their bloody fault, they shouldn't have got into my car, they know I've only got a Restricted licence so give them the ticket, THEY can pay it"