52 Mk 11 the start

[kel]

24mm carb for a 125 two stroke needs to be measured 24mm over the area where the slide runs.

But thats not what the rule states.
Me thinks if you want to argue with TZ's sensible proposal/explanation re measuring that you may have to ammend the rules. I can think of a couple more rule changes to slow down those pesky 2 strokes.

[jasonu]

But thats not what the rule states.
Me thinks if you want to argue with TZ's sensible proposal/explanation re measuring that you may have to ammend the rules. I can think of a couple more rule changes to slow down those pesky 2 strokes.

That is the point, the rules do not specify WHERE the measurement should be taken.
It seems to me that if a manufacturer like Mikuni or Keihin sell you a (for instance) 24mm carb, you will find the 24mm measurement comes from across the venturi where the slide closes off the fuel/air mixture ie a 24mm carb, not a 28mm venturi carb with some sort of 24mm restriction somewhere else.
This issue needs to be addressed by the appropriate MNZ technicial staff and a ruleing should be made ASAP as to where or how the measurement will be taken. It should be done before someone using this idea, starts winning and is then possibly protested and DQ'd. If you want to make a carb out of a garden tap and some sticks or use a kart carb then it would be up to the user to prove it is within the 'equivalent to 24mm' rule.
As for slowing down the pesky 2 strokes, the aircooled 125's have a 25% cc advantage and the coal burners have a 50% cc advantage. Hell, you can buy a stock FXR and be competative just by fitting slicks, a pipe and carb. To get the same level of competativeness out of a 100cc 2 stroke...

I for one am all for inventiveness but I think this is more of an unforseen loophole that needs to be fixed before someone crys.

[kel]

Hell, you can buy a stock FXR and be competative just by fitting slicks, a pipe and carb.

Yeah just dropped mine into the local bike shop ...

[jasonu]

What about no carb restriction on aircooled 125's and at the same time increase 100cc watercooled to 125cc with an 'max size equivalent to' 32mm carb measured anywhere you want?
I've got a few RG500 cylinders and they bolt right on. 35hp here we come YEEHAA!!!

[TZ350]

What about no carb restriction on aircooled 125's and at the same time increase 100cc watercooled to 125cc with an 'max size equivalent to' 32mm carb measured anywhere you want?
I've got a few RG500 cylinders and they bolt right on. 35hp here we come YEEHAA!!!

Actually I like the idea......... no carb restriction on aircooled 125's and 125 water cooled's restricted to 24mm equivelent measured at the front of the slide. The front makes them easer to check.

Water cooled 100's as they were, unrestricted.

[TZ350]

This issue needs to be addressed by the appropriate MNZ technicial staff and a ruleing........

Sounds like a ruling is required...............

While they are at it, it might be best if they also ban hand made carbs.

As I already have plans for one in the traditional style that would meet the proposed measuring spec that I expect will flow just as well as my current modified 28/24 or maybe better. Take a look at a production carb and you can see its badly compromised for the ease of production.............

Also if they don't make it a requirement that it has to be a traditional slide carb salvaged from some old shitter motor bike, then I also have ideas (tested on a car) about using a double veriable venturi and no slide at all, so tell me where would you measure that..........

[jasonu]

Sounds like a ruling is required...............
You are right, a ruleing needs to be made and the rule needs to be re written.

While they are at it, it might be best if they also ban hand made carbs.
Na mate, if you want to make your own carb out of lego I would be OK with it as long as it is within the rules as I have stated several times in this thread.

As I already have plans for one in the traditional style that would meet the proposed measuring spec that I expect will flow just as well as my current modified 28/24 or maybe better. Take a look at a production carb and you can see its badly compromised for the ease of production.............

Also if they don't make it a requirement that it has to be a traditional slide carb salvaged from some old shitter motor bike, then I also have ideas (tested on a car) about using a double veriable venturi and no slide at all, so tell me where would you measure that..........

It would be up to you to prove its legality.

[Yow Ling]

Just push a turd through the carb / inlet duct , if it comes out more than the area of a 24mm carb it would be illegal. Whoever wrote the rule for 24mm carb equivelent wasnt thinking that it would ever be challenged and never wrote exactly what they were thinking or meaning.

[bucketracer]

It would be up to you to prove its legality.

The rules talk about carburation equiveilent to........ not, it must be a traditional slide carb...... and it has to be equivelent to the area of (didn't say, a traditional carb measured traditionaly) 24mm carb ...........

Whoever wrote the rule for 24mm carb equivelent wasnt thinking that it would ever be challenged.

Or that some would be smart enough to think of a way to do it.

Just push a turd through the carb / inlet duct , if it comes out more than the area of a 24mm carb it would be illegal.

I did the test suggested, and yes, TeeZee's carb is legal ............

[TZ350]

The rules talk about carburation equiveilent to........ not, it must be a traditional slide carb...... and it has to be equivelent to the area of (didn't say, a traditional carb measured traditionaly) 24mm carb ............

Its not that they didn't think of it, I think they were leaving the door open to other carb ideas other than the traditional motorcycle slide carb, so that some could use a kart carb or automotive or make or modify something for themselves.

Tell me how can you specify a measuring method that covers all carb possibilitys, other than the light or turd method......

[TZ350]

It seems to me that if a manufacturer like Mikuni or Keihin sell you a (for instance) 24mm carb, you........

........... should not be allowed to mess with it or modify it in any way.

[TZ350]

I did the test suggested, and yes, TeeZee's carb is legal ............

You did Yow Lings test with my carb!!!!!!....Dad is not too pleased.

[Buckets4Me]

but it must be the eqvivalent to a 24mm motorcycle carb,

F4 2 stroke engines over 104cc are restricted to carburation equivalent to a single 24mm
carburettor, F5 4 stroke engines over 53cc are restricted to carburation equivalent to a
single 20mm carburettor.

(didn't know 100cc 4strokes F% bikes where restricted to 20mm carbs)

I dont remember the word motorcycle in there
and what happens when some bright spark bring a fuelinjected 2 stroke along

I personaly think that if a carb has a 24mm hole in it then it's all good (shouldn't matter if the holes gets bigger or smaller over it's length)

otherwise they should let us use 28mm carbs so we can keep up with all these new fast cbr150's that could come along

back when you and mike pened the rules
wasent it 125 air cooled 4 strokes ? (what happened there)

EDIT 140cc and no mention of water or air cooling for 4 strokes

[Buckets4Me]

7.1.4 A protest may only be made by a competitor who has competed in a race or
competition from which the protest ensues, or that rider’s representative where the
rider making the protest is incapacitated by reason of injury.

7.1.5 The protest must be submitted to the Steward of the Meeting in writing and
accompanied by a fee of $35.00 and must make reference to the relevant rule
alleged to have been infringed.

7.1.14 Protests in respect of machine specifications, rider conduct, and conditions of competitions must be submitted to the Steward of the Meeting no later than 30 minutes after the completion of the race or event from which the protest ensues.

7.1.15 Where a protest against machine specifications, including fuel or noise testing, is not
upheld, the protest fee shall be treated as a deposit against any cost of dismantling
and reassembling the protested machine and where necessary a comparison
machine, and the obtaining of comparison parts and manufacturers parts catalogues.
7.1.16 Where a protest against machine specification is upheld, the protest fee may be
refunded, subject to the result of any subsequent appeal. The rider of the offending
machine will be required to meet all costs as outlined in above.
7.1.23 Costs relating to any technical tests required to prove or disprove a protest shall be
the responsibility of the unsuccessful party.
7.1.24 Any decision being the outcome from a protest at an event cannot be overturned or
negated except by the appeal process set out in the Rules.

might be time to go to taupo and have a ride ( good luck )

F4 2 stroke engines over 104cc are restricted to carburation equivalent to a single 24mm
carburettor, F5 4 stroke engines over 53cc are restricted to carburation equivalent to a
single 20mm carburettor.

[TZ350]

back when you and mike pened the rules
wasent it 125 air cooled 4 strokes ? (what happened there)

Good Point.............