Ducati quiting wsb

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

nah mate, settlemental fantasy. put lorrenzo, rossi, stoner etc on 500 hundies and they will go faster than dohan, rainey et al ever did!

[eelracing]

nah mate, settlemental fantasy. put lorrenzo, rossi, stoner etc on 500 hundies and they will go faster than dohan, rainey et al ever did!

Ah the age old question eh?

But I don't agree (cep't for Rossi)todays bikes have to many variables to add to the mix.
What with the current tech rules,engine management,traction/launch control,anti wheelie,engine braking etc it makes it hard for the really talented to show their stuff.

But maybe a quote from an ex 500 winner Christian Sarron sums it up (and he was a madman)"The four strokes are nice bikes...for girls." Maybe on todays bikes he could of been a MotoGP champion?

[eelracing]

The days of no traction control, slipper clutches, radial calipers,fuel injection, and so on..... when the rider was 70% of the machine.........


From these two images, who is the most likely to kiss boys...... number 1 or number 2

I will give you a clue, hetrosexual hard racing men are most unlikely to wear silver suits.

True that but hey these guys hardness or talent can't be questioned.

Good on ya for rarking Crasher out of his "head fucked Stoner" induced despair...I was worried there for a while.

[SS90]

nah mate, settlemental fantasy. put lorrenzo, rossi, stoner etc on 500 hundies and they will go faster than dohan, rainey et al ever did!

I have to say I don't agree.

Looking at the results since the 4 strokes came back in, ignoring Rossi for a moment, we have seen Hayden and Stoner become champions (and let's be real, bar an unfortunate accident or 2, Lorenzo is the next king for sure)

None of these guys are slow, nor untalented, and, proven winners.

But, look at just how easy it was for these guys to jump on the 4 strokes in the premier class, and each if these 3 guys, not only set lap records , but win races.... in their first season, now, we have, again, a talented rider, Spies, doing the same thing.

I cannot think of an example of any rider in recent memory going straight from a season on a 125, some time on a 250, then winning a championship in the premier class.

I will admit, that going by Lorenzo's ability, if he was on a 500, there is every chance he would be up the front as he is now, but Hayden and Stoner? I think not.

I too have read articles where Stoner has suggested he would like a championship with-out traction control etc, and there is part of me that feels sorry for him, because he will always have the stigma of being the first champion in a championship determined by who has the best traction control.

But, the fact remains - he has never firs a shot in anger on an "old school" 500, like Rossi and the last of the old guard, so we will in all fact never really know, I simply base my opinion on how fast the "other 3 champions of MotoGP (Stoner,Hayden, Lorenzo)"came to the top in an era when electronic wizzardry was the deciding factor, not only that, but they did it just after their rookie season........ much faster than has been done before.

The 500 bred the real racers, the current lot seem born in a test tube to me.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I cannot think of an example of any rider in recent memory going straight from a season on a 125, some time on a 250, then winning a championship in the premier class.

Biaggi came reasonably close mate. Against Doohan no less.

[SS90]

Biaggi came reasonably close mate. Against Doohan no less.

Ah yes, Biaggi, I really rate him.

So many people dismiss him..... But I still say he was "one of the breed"

Gibernau, I am told was a prima donna and his family became wealthy through ownership of the old Spanish firm Bultaco, and he was a case of "enough money and time on the bike, and you can do it".... I don't know if that is correct, because he was ( note WAS) really quick, and was the first to Push Rossi after he dominated for so long, but the fact remains, when Biaggi ( he was on the 500 too) and Gibernau where at the front with Rossi, the electro gadgetry was not as big a part of the bike as it is now.

I don't think that anyone could ride like the guys today, not even close, but with the advances in electronics (just like F1) the teams con so easily set almost every aspect of a bike to suit the rider.

A good example is 4 years ago at PI.... The Kawasaki riders spent the whole damned week doing lap after lap after Lap getting ready for the qualifying, Honda a little bit less, but the Yamaha team turns up, Rossi does an hour or so, ( they already have the data they need), make sure the settings are right, Rossi wins, great!

Now that Yamaha and Honda have so much successful data to start a baseline from, I notice the teams are all putting in more time before qualifying (the field has been leveled through competition...which is a good thing) just to get the edge.

Just at this point, it seems that Honda have the edge ( motivation I guess), and I love it.

I still want "King Capo" to cow good on the wretched Suzuki, but it seems that the two teams that have the best technology and budget are the ones cementing themselves at the top.

I read so much stuff about riders wanting to remove all the crap the manufacturers want, but I can't believe that many of them could ride it... Not even close, for so many of the young guys, traction control and so on is all they know ( when it comes to high powered stuff), swith that off completely, and you give them in excess of 220 ps, and I am sure that when you open the throttle on a bike like that..... A lot happens....fast.... The guys who learned their craft on the 500's (Rossi, Capo and so on) would walk away with victory I believe.

Kind of like spending the first 5 years of your life on an automatic scooter, then, with no practice jumping on an R1.

[Mental Trousers]

nah mate, settlemental fantasy. put lorrenzo, rossi, stoner etc on 500 hundies and they will go faster than dohan, rainey et al ever did!

That's a big call and I don't agree. The 500's were a totally different bike from the 800's, even though riding the 800's is closer to riding the 500's (peaky and razor edged) than the 990's (they had grunt that could be used to compensate for mistakes). While any of those riders will ride any bike faster than everyone on this forum can putting Lorenzo, Stoner etc on a 500 is impossible to call (Rossi actually raced and an NSR500 before the change to 4 strokes).

[wharfy]

That's a big call and I don't agree. The 500's were a totally different bike from the 800's, even though riding the 800's is closer to riding the 500's (peaky and razor edged) than the 990's (they had grunt that could be used to compensate for mistakes). While any of those riders will ride any bike faster than everyone on this forum can putting Lorenzo, Stoner etc on a 500 is impossible to call (Rossi actually raced and an NSR500 before the change to 4 strokes).

And won the world title on it ! He probably could have won in his first season on 500's - he admits in his book that HE didn't THINK he could but came close, and regrets not aiming high enough that first season.

Of course there is no way of proving any of this but hey - don't wont to ruin bikers favorite hobby - playing what if
Shame there is no World Post Classic series

[White trash]

Anyway, quite apart from which GP riders babies we'd all like to have. I can see this going seriously pear shaped for Ducati.

If Rossi doesn't fire, and from the first season in the saddle, how long can Ducati afford the massive investment in him and his crew? It is pure speculation that the dropped full factory support due to the costs of the MotoGP team but it would make sense.

The sponsorship won through gaining Rossi must be awesome but I'm sure if he gets thoroughly embarrased, the dollars will dry up pretty quick.

[NZsarge]

I can see this going seriously pear shaped for Ducati.

If Rossi doesn't fire, and from the first season in the saddle, how long can Ducati afford the massive investment in him and his crew? It is pure speculation that the dropped full factory support due to the costs of the MotoGP team but it would make sense.

The sponsorship won through gaining Rossi must be awesome but I'm sure if he gets thoroughly embarrased, the dollars will dry up pretty quick.

Yep, he'd better get rockin' from the get go.
This is probably the biggest gamble in his career and ultimately I have a niggling feeling that it's a mistake.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yep, he'd better get rockin' from the get go.
This is probably the biggest gamble in his career and ultimately I have a niggling feeling that it's a mistake.

If anyone can sort the bike it's Rossi though. We shall see.

[White trash]

Yep, he'd better get rockin' from the get go.
This is probably the biggest gamble in his career and ultimately I have a niggling feeling that it's a mistake.

I seriously believe Ducati stands to lose more in this deal. Rossi (fantastic as he is) can not seriously have too many championships left in him anyway. Ducati need him to ensure that bike is developed to be THE bike for any rider to win on. As he did for Honda. Then Yamaha. If this doesn't happen, they've just chucked a SHITLOAD of money down the drain and it maybe something they never recover from.

[NZsarge]

If anyone can sort the bike it's Rossi though. We shall see.

Hope so, as you say, time'll tell.

I seriously believe Ducati stands to lose more in this deal.

Agreed there too, I was just looking at it from the view point of his career and maintaining that success.

[Oscar]

I seriously believe Ducati stands to lose more in this deal. Rossi (fantastic as he is) can not seriously have too many championships left in him anyway. Ducati need him to ensure that bike is developed to be THE bike for any rider to win on. As he did for Honda. Then Yamaha. If this doesn't happen, they've just chucked a SHITLOAD of money down the drain and it maybe something they never recover from.

Do not underestimate the scale of Vale-mania in Italy.
Ducati have already won.

[Mental Trousers]

If anyone can sort the bike it's Rossi though. We shall see.

It sounds like Jerry Burgess is going with him, as is a good chunk of the pit crew. Ducati may even listen to them when it comes to the bike. The problem, however, is that Ducati is a small team and has very limited resources. As Stoner is finding, when somethings wrong with the Ducati they can't call up the R&D team at the factory and have a whole new setup designed and shipped out to them. Stoner and Hayden are having real problems with the front and Ducati can't get them sorted and it looks like they won't have it fixed before the end of the season because they have to redesign the frame (or get Ohlins to redesign the forks).