My communication about the set of "draft" rules released a while back

[Shaun]

>
> Hi Team
>
> Thanks for your efforts for our sport.
>
> My comments on the proposed rules for the Supersport 600 class
>
> Sorry guy;s, but how does making an engine faster, by allowing more
> machining to the head and barrels help make the sport any healthier, And
> Brian B Knows first hand the cost involved in building a motor like
> this,
> the only advantage I can see, is for Engine builders out there only!!
>
> Our sport lacks competitors and professional promotion, and to now turn
> around and make it even more expensive to try and be fast in the current
> world economy, is crazy to me!
>
> Trying to do this with the idea that it is going to get more kiwi riders
> out there is not a bad thought, but I believe it is Not going to do a
> thing, accept decrease the amount of riders in the elite 600 class.
>
> WORDING CHOICE OF RULES FOR STOCK BIKES
>
> Please tell me they are all going to be re read and written, as there a
> few gaping holes in the current wording, and I can guarantee certain
> parties are laughing there faces off, and intend to stretch them to the
> max if they go though as added.
>
> Sorry, I cannot elaborate on this part any more, but please read them
> looking for the holes, that a cleaver English speaking person has found
> to
> there HUGE advantage
>
> Best Regards
> Shaun Harris
>
>

[Shaun]

83 views and no one else's subs posted? Lets share

[Mom]

Morning Shaun

I will bite. Help a gal out though would you? These rules that have not been ratified, what are they? Who decided they needed changing? What is the impact the changes are going to have to the sport? Why is it taking so long to get sorted?

Plenty more questions but there is a starter.

[Shaun]

Morning Shaun

I will bite. Help a gal out though would you? These rules that have not been ratified, what are they?

1) They were posted on MNZ web site a few months back now, and NO, they are still not 100%, mainly concers SS600 and SB and Superstock classes




Who decided they needed changing?

2) NO idea, have asked to see all the emails sent in with individuals ( Kawasaki) suggestions, but have been told by Peter Ramage, that I cannot view them, yet MNZ is a club org, which I am a financuall mamber off, so some thing rather starange there in the firsty place. There is a Road Race commitee of 5 to sif through all those recieved suggestions


What is the impact the changes are going to have to the sport?

3) Make it al least $3000 more to race in the SS600 or SB class MINIMUM


Why is it taking so long to get sorted?

4) one of the 5 commitee members returned the groups decision at the very last minute, ( I am assuming here) that they believed MNZ would just simply accept what they had drafted up as the new rules, but it does not work that way, so a couple of intelligent men are having to go through it all, to change wording etc to cover any grey area;s in wording etc

Plenty more questions but there is a starter.

Hope that explains a little for you MUM

[SS90]

Ok, if no-one else will have a go.........

What Shaun writes pretty much sums it up really.

You have true Veteran (in every sense of the word) of the racing scene putting his experienced opinion forward on something that will determine the shape of this sport, and the most worrying thing is that no one will permit any outside person to read the current proposal.

That quite frankly is disgusting.

It is clear for anyone with a modicum of common sense that this is being pushed by distributors, purely to increase sales...nothing more...nothing less.

For everyone to remain so apathetic about it all is equally disturbing.

The harsh relaity of racing in NZ is that it is largely a money hole, with the chances of "going international" somewhat slim..... And here we have one of the lucky bunch trying to keep what slim chance there is, alive.

The idea of increasing the costs involved in setting up a bike, in any way is ludacris, it's far too much as it is, and has sent many riders into big debt.

The current format is not perfect, no one says it is, but it is one that has evolved, somewhat naturally, based on the type of market NZ has.

Clearly, we cannot use other markets as an example when it come to running a domestic series, NZ has only 4 million people, and most of them don't give a toss about bike racing at the best of times.

Instead of changing the rules so dramatically, why don't they look at streamlining what they already have..... Motorcross in NZ continues to thrive, and one of those reasons is that it is somewhat more affordable and family friendly than road racing.

Address those problems and you might start to get somewhere.

Increasing the cost, just to finish the same position in a championship you would have if the or cost was $3000 cheaper is nuts.

[Robert Taylor]

Ok, if no-one else will have a go.........

What Shaun writes pretty much sums it up really.

You have true Veteran (in every sense of the word) of the racing scene putting his experienced opinion forward on something that will determine the shape of this sport, and the most worrying thing is that no one will permit any outside person to read the current proposal.

That quite frankly is disgusting.

It is clear for anyone with a modicum of common sense that this is being pushed by distributors, purely to increase sales...nothing more...nothing less.

For everyone to remain so apathetic about it all is equally disturbing.

The harsh relaity of racing in NZ is that it is largely a money hole, with the chances of "going international" somewhat slim..... And here we have one of the lucky bunch trying to keep what slim chance there is, alive.

The idea of increasing the costs involved in setting up a bike, in any way is ludacris, it's far too much as it is, and has sent many riders into big debt.

The current format is not perfect, no one says it is, but it is one that has evolved, somewhat naturally, based on the type of market NZ has.

Dimo,y, we cannot use other markets as an example when it come to running a domestic series, NZ has only 4 million people, and most of them don't give a toss about bike racing at the best of times.

Instead of changing the rules so dramatically, why don't they look at streamlining what they already have..... Motorcross in NZ continues to thrive, and one of those reasons is that it is somewhat more affordable and family friendly than road racing.

Address those problems and you might start to get somewhere.

Increasing the cost, just to finish the same position in a championship you would have if the or cost was $3000 cheaper is nuts.

Just briefly and I have read this all too quickly, 3 of the main distributors have their feet firmly planted on the ground and have people that actually understand road racing.

MX thrives at certain levels but the Nationals are beset by similiar problems to road race. Ill read your e-mail again tonight

[Robert Taylor]

''Never in the field of messing around with rules has so much bewilderment for so many been created by so few''

[codgyoleracer]

Shaun:
My comments were submitted as below - and revolve around Formula 3 and the proposed 250GP bikes being bought into the class. Happy to share my view on that matter.

I have openly discussed elswhere my views on 600 stock V supersport & same for the 1000's. Personally i dont see the point in having two seperate classes and would like to see someone make a call & decide on one so that the guys can all move forward on one road. (her is a hint though - choose the one that keeps costs at a moderate level)

Only concern with stock(ish) engines though is policing of the rules.......

Below was my submission onthe F3 proposal: Look forward to seeing others views. It looks like the GP250's didnt make iot in though at this stage.


Hi Guys (commison)

Ref: F3/Sportsbike rules/proposals

Have had a look at the proposed race rules for F3/sportsbike. Please do not take these comments as sour grapes!

The main item I see is the inclusion of GP250 bikes in the class, at that It contradicts :
- The class outline in respect of pitting "similar performance" machines against each other

My explanation on the above:
1) The horsepower figure for these machines in standard trim would be similar to a current top "F3" bike for a 250GP machine on 98 fuel (low 80 hp mark) , however hp/weight ratio is well out of balance with current F3 machines. Chris Osborne has the dyno graphs for you to refer to.
2) The word "sportsbike" - indicates "predominantly production based machines, - A GP bike has no resemblance to a production machine
3) The word "formula" - (i note is no longer used ) , but is still historically relevant to the class. A GP bike has no relevance to a "Formula" bike. A dedicated GP machine is quite simply manufactured for one thing and is in no way a formula of developed parts.
4) I have been told that lap times are to be used as an 'example of proof" to let the GP250 machines run in this class , then it is best to use average / good (ish) riders for this example. Troy Odonahue Manfield times a number of years ago 1m.12sec, Glen Jeffries Pukekohe times 1m 1sec, Hayden Bool Ruapuna 1m35sec. These are old bikes, with pretty good riders punting them - so are relevant to make the comparison. More than 10 years a go , a very good overseas rider was in single figures at Manfield on an old bike..........
5) The 250GP bikes " in their day" were competing strongly (and winning) against 4 cylinder 600cc carbureted machines and also water cooled 748cc VTwins, - so therefore it would be reasonable to allow these machines to also be allowed to compete in the class. However If the commission thinks it " not reasonable" to let these 600/748 machines compete in the class, then they have answered their own question on whether or not 250GP bikes belongs in F3/Sportsbike
7) Two strokes (especially 250's) are being discontinued in racing worldwide. If we wish to tow the line on a world-wide trend, and present a clean & green marketing image for this sport as a whole , then the two stroke engine should not be promoted.

Additional: The name "Sportsbike" is somewhat bland, and it is noted that the Victoria Motorcycle Club has already coined a name for Formula 3 called it "Superlite". it is a superior name in most respects and should be strongly considered (assuming that there is some marketing interest in mind ? ),

[codgyoleracer]

Will explain further my 600/1000 rule outline thoughts

600's supersport spec last year were pretty good overall, I would look at applying these same general rules to 1000's but allow slicks for them.

Glen

[Shaun]

Will explain further my 600/1000 rule outline thoughts

600's supersport spec last year were pretty good overall, I would look at applying these same general rules to 1000's but allow slicks for them.

Glen

Cheers for your input Glen, re what you say above, 95 % of the riders that race in these classes that I have spoken to by calling them, 100% AGREE with what you, I ,and others have said.

Regarding Roberts post about 3 manufacturers, having there feet on the ground, I will name and praise them highly

SUZUKI
HONDA
YAMAHA

Good on ya Team

[Wingnut]

I will probably get crucified here but:

There seems to be sooooo many alterations, submissions, changes, dissagreements, opinions, arguments regarding National Rules. Correct me if I am wrong but it appears that within each class there is only really a dozen or so "Serious Players" that go to each round and are competing towards a National Title.

Is all the pissing around and alterations really worth it? or am I missing something? Although re. major changes - these surely would need to be investigated further.

I mean no offense as I do realise that those that do race at this level, invest a shit load of $$ and time in their quest towards fulfilling theiir resoective goals. And by default - it is a serious subject to these "Players".

Anyway..... just an opinion.

Geoff.

[Ivan]

The Dissapointing thing for most people is they want there bikes ready for Nats now so they can start testing not waiting till the very last second to realise that the 3000 bucks on suspension etc is now a waste of money and has to be hauled off.

I think the point was smacked on the head earlier Aussy rules might allow more work but they also are earning alot more money at there work and prize money etc.

riders wanting to go overseas are gonna do it regardless of what rules NZ has,

If you wish to race internationally do it dont claim you cant be cause the bike you rode on NZ is differnt to the one you ride in Oz, US etc,

[Shaun]

''Never in the field of messing around with rules has so much bewilderment for so many been created by so few''

Robert, I have done my normall, and opened my mouth wide again again and again

SO are you prepared to copy us in all the emails you "MIGHT?" have sent around the place that may have a part in this hold up that you refer to as "Disrespectfull and playing with peoples lives" ?

Some one has unfortunately been out of order and named a manufacturer that wanted differenet to what was current, and me being me, I named them, glad I am an old man, and not wanting to maybe race one of there bikes one day.

I am sure you have the support behind you regarding the Quality of your product, ( Which Ohlin;s is good) but it must be time to copy us all in on your email trails about this subjest, or is that Confidentuall, ( I do appreciate that as the main Ohlin's dealer, of course you have direct Contrats with those 3 I Named) to disclose what you may have emailed to the Importers and else where, may shed some light on your posts on here regarding these issues

You know me better than 98% of people on here, and I only shoot from the hip Direct mate, so please amuse me, and break down your " well spoken English" and let the cats actually see your efforts RE the New New Zealand Rule proposals, remembering that all Diatribe sent to the commision, is accessable by any MNZ paid up memebr, by simply asking the MNZ office to supply copies of, once all is finalised, as I believe the Road race Commision is required to hand over all the correspondence regarding there brief.

[Shaun]

The Dissapointing thing for most people is they want there bikes ready for Nats now so they can start testing not waiting till the very last second to realise that the 3000 bucks on suspension etc is now a waste of money and has to be hauled off.

I think the point was smacked on the head earlier Aussy rules might allow more work but they also are earning alot more money at there work and prize money etc.

riders wanting to go overseas are gonna do it regardless of what rules NZ has,

If you wish to race internationally do it dont claim you cant be cause the bike you rode on NZ is differnt to the one you ride in Oz, US etc,

Well said Ivan, KiWI;s are soft now, and just want an exscuse to not try

[Shaun]

I will probably get crucified here but:

There seems to be sooooo many alterations, submissions, changes, dissagreements, opinions, arguments regarding National Rules. Correct me if I am wrong but it appears that within each class there is only really a dozen or so "Serious Players" that go to each round and are competing towards a National Title.

Is all the pissing around and alterations really worth it? or am I missing something? Although re. major changes - these surely would need to be investigated further.

I mean no offense as I do realise that those that do race at this level, invest a shit load of $$ and time in their quest towards fulfilling theiir resoective goals. And by default - it is a serious subject to these "Players".

Anyway..... just an opinion.

Geoff.

Not from me anyway, I also do noy understand why the WHEEL is tring to get re invented, apart from Money reasons perhaps- sales sales- sales