Revolting teachers!

[MSTRS:Me]

Extra help at the bottom is required. But not to make these individuals succeed (as this only comes to personal drive). But to educate them enough that they have less children then their parents had.

A waste of time. You've heard the saying "Give me the child until age 7..."? 2 years of schooling (from 5) isn't going to make a difference. And sex ed doesn't start until age 11 or so.
No - all school is for is to turn out young adults with a bit of paper that says they have reached a certain level of academic achievement. And the extra help should be available for all levels, not just the level who are unlikely to 'succeed' because they had help.

[avgas]

Sorry, can't seem to figure this one out...
Why do teachers need a pay rise? Most people i've spoken to haven't had any pay rises for the last two years, due to the recession.....

Ditto - I have not.

[avgas]

Value Education - You first, it is your job to get excited about it.
Value Schools - You first, it is your job to instill pride in schools, be proud of where you work
Value Students - We do, this is why they go to school rather than daycare
Value Teachers - WHY!
What value have you added? I am not saying that you are not. But you can't simply say "Value Us".
Tell us where you have added value. Tell us where you have not just regurgitated syllabus.

You would be surprised by what a student will say to his parents about the teacher when they come home and. Likewise you would be surprised what happens when a customer SEEs value in value in something.

[MSTRS:Me]

Reminds me of something that happened a few years ago...
One of our kids was, shall we say, not too bright. Basically, he was bottom of the class in every area. After 10 years of school, and failing, he got to the point where he couldn't really be bothered trying anymore. Afterall, who else would persevere (and fail) for 10 years, and not reach the give-up point?
Anyway, at a teacher-interview evening, one particular teacher sat there smugly berating him to his mother for his lack of achievement and attitude. Well...
That teacher got carpeted in short order. Along the lines of there was no failure on the child's part. No, the failure lay at the feet of all the teachers who failed to lead the child to some success. Think about it...6+ through primary school, at least the same through intermediate and probably 18-20 through high school. 30+ opportunities to make a difference. We even paid for sessions at Kip McGrath, with limited success. It is their job, and what they are paid for, to do this for all students. Not everyone learns the same way, and it is part of the teachers job to know this and explore the different options for the best individual outcome/s. So - the failure lay with the teaching profession, and what were they going to do about it.
Strange...had little trouble after that.

[slofox]

What I don't do is stay somewhere I'm not happy about it and then bitch about it constantly.

This is a valid point.

I got out of teaching after eleven years. Not because I didn't like teaching kids - that was one of the best things I ever did. I got out because of the system I had to work in, combined with the fact that I got paid the same as the lazy bastards who just came along to school each day and slacked through. I had a conscience about teaching - I felt the responsibility that was placed upon me with these little kids. I figured I owed them my best and I always strove to do that. Unlike some of my colleagues...

When it comes down to it, teaching is an essential profession. We HAVE to have teachers. Just as we have to have other professions like medicine etc. We should make it an attractive profession.

As it is, as a teacher, one is expected to shoulder the blame for a lot of poor parenting and one is expected to put a lot of that poor parenting right. Which in many cases is simply NOT possible. Basically, teachers cop a lot of flak for things they cannot fix.

I always worked on the principle that I couldn't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. All I could do was try to realise the available potential of each of my students. If they had fuck all potential, I could not "make" more.

Having said all that, I still miss teaching thirty years down the track.

[MSTRS:Me]

....All I could do was try to realise the available potential of each of my students....

If only you had the above pupil in your class...

[slofox]

If only you had the above pupil in your class...

I would've given it my best shot...

[p.dath]

Likewise, Bob Jones.

Proof that there are always those that can make a success of themselves, despite the lack of early opportunity, or indeed what their schooling did or didn't do for them. They are the exception in the normal scheme of things.

I think we need to be carefull not to confuse academic capability with "success".

There are plenty of things that just require effort to be a "success". Knowing how to use newton-raphson does mean you will be a success.

When it comes down to it, teaching is an essential profession. We HAVE to have teachers. Just as we have to have other professions like medicine etc. We should make it an attractive profession.

We have to make it an attractive profession? If everyone became a teacher tomorrow we'd be in deep shit. We need a mix of professions to make the world go around, and there is no reason to single out one and make it especially shiny and pretty looking.

Perhaps this goes to the heart of the issue. Teachers are over-valuing their position in society. Maybe we need more carpenters to make the pedestals shorter.

[John_H]

My experience tends to suggest "new" teachers put in this effort, because they have to build up resources. Experienced teachers already have the resources to go, and don't have to invest this extra time. basically they are doing nearly the same thing every year. Pretty easy really.

Sorry not like that, my wife has been a teacher since 1998 and still puts in heaps of effort and time. You can't recycle the same material all the time, as the curriculum is constantly changing and it is a new class every year with different learning needs and styles. What exactly makes you an authority on this?

[mashman]

We need a mix of professions to make the world go around, and there is no reason to single out one and make it especially shiny and pretty looking.

So why not value teachers the same as the higher paid members of the civil service? After all, you wouldn't want any 1 profession to stand out would you

[p.dath]

Sorry not like that, my wife has been a teacher since 1998 and still puts in heaps of effort and time. You can't recycle the same material all the time, as the curriculum is constantly changing and it is a new class every year with different learning needs and styles. What exactly makes you an authority on this?

My ex wife, who was a teacher, and many years observing teachers.

[p.dath]

So why not value teachers the same as the higher paid members of the civil service? After all, you wouldn't want any 1 profession to stand out would you

Because they aren't being dumb enough to ask for a pay rise in a recession.

[SVboy]

Ladies and Gentlemen-we have an experienced expert in the house. Thank god!!

QUOTE=p.dath;1129861342]I'm sick of the teachers complaining.

I know plenty of people wanting a job at the moment. I would say most of them wouldn't care what they got paid - they just want a job.

And here we have a bunch of people, effectively guaranteed job security, wanting both an increase in their wages and even more of themselves to be employed, whilke the rest of the country struggles thanks to a global recession.

The teachers should be gratefull to have a guanateed pay check every week during these tough times.


I'm not sorry. They need to pull their heads in, and appreciate that they have it pretty sweet compared to many. Wait till times are a bit better before putting your hand out.[/QUOTE]

[mashman]

Because they aren't being dumb enough to ask for a pay rise in a recession.

Ok, so you'd rather avoid answering the question, I can see why . Perhaps the govt shoulda looked after the teachers when the good times rolled... then they wouldn't have to ask AGAIN!

[SVboy]

Mr Dath-try observing some of my classes some time-better still try and impart some of your wisdom to my charges. If you dont think my fellow teachers and I are not worth our conditions, then you are just not being realistic!!