Revolting teachers!

**pritch** · 11th October 2010, 21:43

Originally Posted by StephenG

Some seem to appreciate the work we do, but there's also a few that don't.

Cognitive dissonances at work here; I respect teachers but have absolutely no respect for the cretins that seem to represent the profession.

Then again, when I read some of the stuff on the Internet I wonder what you guys do all day. OK, I know Joe rides his bike but...

**gijoe1313** · 11th October 2010, 21:49

Well today was a good start for me, my junior classes were well behaved and actually did their work! I wonder what they are setting me up for!

And as I was having a chat to the kids about their school hols, they got me chatting about my bikes (they are getting smart and realise they can always derail my lesson plans by talking about bikes!

)

Mmmmm bikes ... but bugger it, got a damn rolling strike this thursday. Year 11s not to be taught!

**MikeL** · 12th October 2010, 08:22

Originally Posted by oldrider

If anybody ever reads this thread again, especially any teachers, I think that there is something that should be made clearer!

Generally we are not criticising the ability of teachers to "teach", or their commitment to their job and their pupils!

It is the teaching professions attitude to industrial relations and employment conditions that is being criticised.

I can see your point of view and to some extent I share your misgivings about the teacher unions. However, I wonder whether you have thought carefully about what conditions and salaries teachers might be now putting up with if there had been no strong unions in the past. Do you seriously believe that without the PPTA the secondary teachers would be earning even the pittance they get today??

**oldrider** · 12th October 2010, 08:49

Originally Posted by MikeL

I can see your point of view and to some extent I share your misgivings about the teacher unions. However, I wonder whether you have thought carefully about what conditions and salaries teachers might be now putting up with if there had been no strong unions in the past. Do you seriously believe that without the PPTA the secondary teachers would be earning even the pittance they get today??

True enough but are their agendas today still in your best interest or their own?

I suppose I fantasize about Utopia too much and forget about the arseholes on the way!

But having been in a position where one could actually see Utopia in the distance and where it was possible to deal to the arseholes appropriately, it is difficult not to see Utopian dreams as achievable!

I still believe that where there is a "will" there is a way!

Unfortunately, if you hand a task over to someone else to do, their own agendas will get in the way of the progress of yours, every time!

No one said it would be easy!

**MikeL** · 12th October 2010, 10:12

Originally Posted by oldrider

True enough but are their agendas today still in your best interest or their own?

I suppose I fantasize about Utopia too much and forget about the arseholes on the way!

Utopias can't exist, both by definition (the word means "noplace") and through the limitations of human nature. There will always be a tension between the claims of the employer and the claims of the worker. The history of workers' movements in the 19th and 20th centuries is essentially the struggle of workers to redress the huge power imbalance between the two sides. What has animated (and will continue to animate) the ideological debate is firstly the different perspective on the value of labour compared to the value of capital and entrepreneurship in the industrial equation, and secondly the relative value of different types of work within the economy.

A consensus on both debates will never happen because most people will not sacrifice their selfish interests for the good of the economy, the community or the environment as a whole.

It is the second issue that really concerns me most. I have a particular view, based on my own experience and reflections, which I don't expect you to share, but which I think you can at least appreciate.

Most of my life I have been a teacher, but at one point I left the profession first to go into business (self-employed), then to work in sales and marketing for a large multinational electronics company. The small business was fun but I struggled because of the level of capital needed to get ahead. The sales and marketing job was in many respects a dream: generous salary, company car, expense account, overseas travel... I stayed there for 4 years and if I'd wanted to I could probably have still been there. But in my fourth year I became disillusioned with the whole pointless marketing thing: putting all my intellectual skills and creativity into persuading people to buy things they didn't need with money they didn't have. How was this making a positive contribution to the sum total of human happiness or knowledge? So (despite my wife's strenuous objections) I went back to teaching. Of course our standard of living dropped preciptiously, and there have been times I've regretted my decision, but on the whole I know that I'm now doing a more important and valuable job. When I think about my current working conditions, hours, stress etc. I can't help feeling a little bitter that my job is not, by and large, valued by others anywhere near as highly as the pointless work I was doing before. But until we begin to take a broader view of people's contributions to society rather than remain narrowly focussed on the market place and bottom-line accounting nothing will change.

**oldrider** · 12th October 2010, 12:20

Fair enough!

We get one shot at life (irrespective of religious beliefs) and I for one am determined to maximise that opportunity!

I have been placed on the luckiest part of the planet and have enjoyed the most wonderful life that anyone could ever ask for!

I am not enthused about the idea of reincarnation because anything other than the life I have enjoyed so far would probably be a retrograde step!

I have enjoyed my time at work at play and at rest and have a wonderful wife and family.

I look outside today at the most wonderful sunny calm temperate day in paradise!

The only thing that could possibly fuck it up is human conflict, I shall do my best to avoid that today!

I will be 71 this month and that is the end of my expected quota of life, based on human male average! (three score years and ten)

After Labour weekend I will be on bonus time, everyday will be more precious than ever and I shall try not to feel even a little guilty at my good fortune!

Best of luck to the rest of you, take care out there.

**Smifffy** · 12th October 2010, 16:10

Then again, perhaps if they had better representation they might now be earning a great deal more...

Originally Posted by MikeL

I can see your point of view and to some extent I share your misgivings about the teacher unions. However, I wonder whether you have thought carefully about what conditions and salaries teachers might be now putting up with if there had been no strong unions in the past. Do you seriously believe that without the PPTA the secondary teachers would be earning even the pittance they get today??

**Squiggles** · 23rd October 2010, 14:41

Stoking the fire

**merv** · 23rd October 2010, 15:32

The irony is that the CEO of the Education Ministry managed this:

"One of the biggest winners was Karen Sewell of the Ministry of Education. While she hasn't been able to strike a deal with teachers' salaries, she's negotiated a $20,000 payrise of her own in the past year. Ms Sewell's pay rate increases to $509,000."

So she is being paid nearly 10 x a lowly teacher, begrudges them getting 0.4% pay rise and takes over 4% herself. So nearly 10x salary plus 10x the % rise.

A teacher on 60k, if they finally get their 0.4%, will get an extra $240 per annum compared to the CEO getting an extra $20,000 p.a. or 83 times as much.

The top end do line their nest these days and workers wouldn't begrudge it half as bad if at least the percentage rises stayed on par, but they never do, let alone the comparative working conditions.

How many office workers at the Ministry have to pay for a work laptop and cell phone yet many teachers have to, while at the same time the Ministry preaches the need for the use of more technology in class etc etc? The whole situation is farcical, the Govt should be spending the money on the front line where it matters.

**mashman** · 23rd October 2010, 21:38

Don't forget the tax refund she's just "earned" too... wonder what that's worth...

**merv** · 23rd October 2010, 21:45

Originally Posted by mashman

Don't forget the tax refund she's just "earned" too... wonder what that's worth...

That's probably more than 10 x what the poor teachers are getting too!

**merv** · 24th October 2010, 10:18

Haha from the feedback I've had I may as well have said in that last post more than 100 or even a 1,000 x what the poor teacher gets as the CEO will have got close to $25,000 for her tax cut. There is no justice that is for sure.

**mashman** · 24th October 2010, 19:09

I wasn't sure as i'd roughly calculated about 20k... so an effective 45k pay rise

to oversee a group of subordinates... aren't those subordinates unhappy about something? Why do you get a pay rise when yer subordinates are hacked off with their working conditions? That kind of performance is usually accompanied by being unceremoniously shown the door... that shoulda been the outcome for her, not a whackin great chunk of cash...