What's your take on tax cuts/GST increase?

[mashman]

So, who ruined it?
Ourselves. The greedy bunch that increased the prices, and the lawyers that defend them.

I disagree. If the banks didn't offer CREDIT, then we wouldn't be able to buy things that we can't afford... all it does is run up a national debt that we're all held accountable for through taxation. It's bullshit! and has nothing really to do with us and all to do with profit maximisation.

+1 on the lawyers though

[mashman]

Ya wanna explain that one to me?--sorry I genuinely don't get it.
To me if ya don't spend it then you don't pay gst on it.

Staples like fuel, electricity, food, council service charges etc... all have GST on them, the things you really can't avoid.

[Banditbandit]

Ah, friend
If you dig deep enough, you can always find some bones.
We are only human.
Let's look at the larger picture, as an average, or Root Mean Square style analysis (if you're an engineer).

No sorry - you'll hate me .. I'm a Philosopher of Religion ...

[Marmoot]

I disagree. If the banks didn't offer CREDIT, then we wouldn't be able to buy things that we can't afford... all it does is run up a national debt that we're all held accountable for through taxation. It's bullshit! and has nothing really to do with us and all to do with profit maximisation.

+1 on the lawyers though

Bank people are mostly us as well.

[Marmoot]

No sorry - you'll hate me .. I'm a Philosopher of Religion ...

I don't know. I am a religious philosopher myself. Cynical one too at that.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

Staples like fuel, electricity, food, council service charges etc... all have GST on them, the things you really can't avoid.

+ bank fees, interest, farting fees, and not forgetting our loving ACC... blah blah very soon there wil be more bartinging for trading...

[mashman]

Bank people are mostly us as well.

I'm talking about those who earn hundreds of thousands of $$$ (there are lots of these people and they work for overseas banks, wonder where they spend their wages and pay their taxes). This is a quite a serious problem for those on lower incomes, let alone small, honest businesses that are JUST earning a living, hoping that some day they can afford to stop and go and enjoy themselves. If you're earning near millions, you've just been given a bumper bonus from the govt. The size of bonus that'll more than offset GST. If you're that well off, you probably have what you really need anyway and anything else is just status (plus they'll be tightening their belts too).

[Marmoot]

I'm talking about those who earn hundreds of thousands of $$$

Yup. In the context of "us vs. the Government", those bankers are part of us

I.e., they are not the lawmakers/taxrulers, but they are part of the society that milks the situation.

[mashman]

Yup. In the context of "us vs. the Government", those bankers are part of us

I.e., they are not the lawmakers/taxrulers, but they are part of the society that milks the situation.

only the ones that are subject to the countries taxation laws. The Prime Minister is a banker

[Banditbandit]

I don't know. I am a religious philosopher myself. Cynical one too at that.

I'm just cynical ... I think that just comes with age

[schrodingers cat]

Ya wanna explain that one to me?--sorry I genuinely don't get it.
To me if ya don't spend it then you don't pay gst on it.

What you originally said was "You do understand GST is a consumption tax, and is there to discouarge spending and encourage saving? "

You are correct that as you spend so you shall be taxed. However, when it was first introduced it was not with the function of encouraging spending but rather ensuring that the tax captured the governments 'share' of EVERY dollar spent.

Prior to that there were many many legal ways to avoid tax - as there still are.
Cash is often attractive to people as it avoids PAYE etc. However, eventually it falls but into the legitimate money go round and is taxed.
Every time it goes around there is another nibble.

Saving is an interesting thing. When you 'save' your money become availible for someone else to use(spend). In theory you get it back with interest (money paid to say 'thank you for allowing us to use your capital')

The government would like you to save so they can use your money on-shore rather than borrow it from off-shore (and therefore export our wealth)

[schrodingers cat]

So, who ruined it?
Ourselves. The greedy bunch that increased the prices, and the lawyers that defend them.
No realistic measures can be put by the government unless we want to go into dictatorship-like temporary price freeze, which is against the freedom and democracy nature of our proud country.

Won't the magical FREE MARKET make it all OK again?

[aprilia_RS250]

The government would like you to save so they can use your money on-shore rather than borrow it from off-shore (and therefore export our wealth)

This is incorrect and you're sort of also contradicting yourself simultaneously.

You're wrong in calling borrowing from o/seas an "export of wealth". Think of a local bank and you go in to borrow some cash to start up a business in order to acquire capital. Your business does well, you pay the loan off, and your business continues building wealth. Who has acquired the wealth here? Think local bank as o/seas loan market and your business as the NZ gov't. There is so much money you can accumulate locally that you must go offshore and get more in order to keep growing.

You're contradicting yourself by saying the gov't wants you to save because they want access to your funds via the workings of a banking system. If they wanted your funds it's much more effective collecting it via a direct tax such as GST rather than have it circulate with Aussie banks offshore where they may never see it again.

[schrodingers cat]

Why are they borrowing from these Aussie banks?

[Marmoot]

Won't the magical FREE MARKET make it all OK again?

Free Market would make it worse.
Cheaper prices presented by 3rd world countries would attract some of us and the money ended up spent elsewhere (instead of in NZ). In total, the money circulating in NZ becomes less, hence we become poorer. Both as a nation, as well as individually.