Gathering data...

**davereid** · 17th October 2010, 08:45

ACC have been making a bit of a point of the fact that motorcyclists cause a fair amount of their own injuries - over 50% in fact.

I am not sure this is factual, as It appears that any single vehicle crash is attributed to driver error. Sometimes this may be the case - inattention, excessive speed etc etc.

But for bikes especially we can have a single vehicle crash that a substantial amount of the blame can be laid elsewhere. Diesel spills, loose metal, incorrect signed roadworks.

This is a poll, I want to collect serious data not have it filled up with "only noobs fall off on shingle" etc etc type comments.

But if you have a useful comment please contribute.

For SINGLE VEHICLE ACCIDENTS ONLY ON A MOTORCYCLE

**yungatart** · 17th October 2010, 09:10

Inadequate signage was a factor in my single vehicle accident.
We reported it to the council concerned who rectified the problem!
However motorcyclists in the area were well aware of the corner, and knew of lots of bikes coming to grief...such a shame nobody did anything about it before I happened along!

**chanceyy** · 17th October 2010, 09:10

Several off's Dave

3 due to road surface (unmarked gravel)
1 due to car but as I was following my responsibility

all no injury accidents (no acc claims)

did not vote as not a clear indication of my crash history

**scumdog** · 17th October 2010, 09:13

HOW the crash happened is not ACCs worry (so it seems)

It's the fact that there WAS an injury crash at all.

**Berries** · 17th October 2010, 09:14

I have never been sure where ACC get their data from. If it is from their own claims then I can’t comment, but if it is from the national crash database (CAS) then I would say that over 50% is not far off the mark, although if you are looking at single vehicle bike only crashes I would guestimate the figure to be over 80%. Yes there are those other factors that you mentioned but I don’t think they come anywhere close to being a major factor.

You mention fault. It is true that if you look at fault in a single vehicle crash using the crash database it will nearly always attribute fault to that rider/driver, even if there are extenuating circumstances such as gravel on the apex etc. This is down to the way it calculates fault based on the crash movement. So you can’t use CAS fault in a single vehicle crash, only in multi vehicle crashes to see who was the party most at fault.

Although it is based on the Police view of the incident, not necessarily the riders, I can provide a CAS analysis of single bike crashes if you know what you are after. If diesel/gravel/roadworks was an issue it is recorded. It might not give you the info you need, but it will be what TPTB are looking at.

**mashman** · 17th October 2010, 09:47

Originally Posted by davereid

But if you have a useful comment please contribute.

For SINGLE VEHICLE ACCIDENTS ONLY ON A MOTORCYCLE

Hopefully useful eeeeek

It's not about the number of "accidents" really is it. It's about the amount of money it costs ACC per motorcycle accident. (this is not a money rant

)

ACC said it was 20k/motorcycle accident on average. Those are the numbers I'd like a look at, because i HIGHLY doubt that cars are cross subsidising motorcycles...

**Jantar** · 17th October 2010, 10:23

I have had two single vehicle ACC claims. One I have voted on as being my fault entirely. The other one was due to mechanicle failure, which isn't given as an option. However I would guess that as no other person can be held accountable that would still go down on ACC stats as my fault.

**Motu** · 17th October 2010, 10:59

I think you have too many options in your poll - there should be only one.Road conditions and other vehicles are not a reason to opt out of your responsibility.

**slofox** · 17th October 2010, 11:48

I have twice come off in what might be called "single vehicle" accidents. But in fact both were low speed drops and the last one wasn't even on the road but in a carpark (albeit a public carpark)...so might not truly be termed "accidents" for the purposes of this survey.

**onearmedbandit** · 17th October 2010, 12:28

For the accidents I've claimed ACC for (3) they've all been single vehicle accidents, and all been rider error.

**thehovel** · 17th October 2010, 14:14

Originally Posted by Berries

I have never been sure where ACC get their data from. If it is from their own claims then I can’t comment, but if it is from the national crash database (CAS) then I would say that over 50% is not far off the mark, although if you are looking at single vehicle bike only crashes I would guestimate the figure to be over 80%. Yes there are those other factors that you mentioned but I don’t think they come anywhere close to being a major factor.

You mention fault. It is true that if you look at fault in a single vehicle crash using the crash database it will nearly always attribute fault to that rider/driver, even if there are extenuating circumstances such as gravel on the apex etc. This is down to the way it calculates fault based on the crash movement. So you can’t use CAS fault in a single vehicle crash, only in multi vehicle crashes to see who was the party most at fault.

Although it is based on the Police view of the incident, not necessarily the riders, I can provide a CAS analysis of single bike crashes if you know what you are after. If diesel/gravel/roadworks was an issue it is recorded. It might not give you the info you need, but it will be what TPTB are looking at.

All ACC stats are based on what little box the doctor ticked. So if you are carrying a helmet he or she ticks "motor cycle crash" and even if you point out that it wasn't or it was an off road (sports crash)he is not going to refill out the form again. The doctor will never ask you if the crash is a sports ACC claim because they are biasd against motor bikes. The last crash the doc quoted the 16% motor cycle crashes states and what was a 60 mumble year old was doing riding a bike, So I asked him what the stats on pissing of an injured bike ride punching him was??? he assesd me out-side arms length. ACC stats are not based on Police stats I don't know why because they are at the crash. Regards Richard

**Woodman** · 17th October 2010, 14:21

You are more likely to get injured in a motorcycle crash than a car crash no matter whose fault it is.

**oldrider** · 17th October 2010, 18:34

Originally Posted by Woodman

You are more likely to get injured in a motorcycle crash than a car crash no matter whose fault it is.

That may be your opinion but I think the purpose of this thread is to dispute or justify that claim.

I for one do not believe ACC figures and statistic can be relied upon as true indication!

**Woodman** · 17th October 2010, 19:13

Originally Posted by oldrider

That may be your opinion but I think the purpose of this thread is to dispute or justify that claim.

I for one do not believe ACC figures and statistic can be relied upon as true indication!

When there is a car vs bike injury accident do they list it as such?
Or do they list it as a bike crash because the bike operator is the person that is injured?
Or do they list it depending on who is at fault no matter which party is injured ?

Or other?
I honestly don't know, so need educating on the subject before going off half cocked.

**davereid** · 18th October 2010, 18:12

Originally Posted by oldrider

I for one do not believe ACC figures and statistic can be relied upon as true indication!

They spin data at will.

But if we can get 100-500 responses, we will actually have a reasonable quality dataset with which to move forward.

So please do poll.