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Thread: Registration plate not displayed in correct manner

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by avgas View Post

    Imagine if you will if you headlight is down where you left knee was. This would not be the front as traffic to the right of you could not see it.
    Sorta like an E-type Jag??
    Winding up drongos, foil hat wearers and over sensitive KBers for over 14,000 posts...........
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supertwin Don View Post
    My next comment is based on memories of investigating the above rules 25 years ago when I was building a chop - nearly all modern sports bikes would not comply with the regs on rear mudguard - "to prevent, as far as practical, material from being thrown upwards from the rear wheel"

    And I'll bet there are a number of other regs that have never been updated OR RESCINDED which could be used to prosecute bikers - even on "factory" customs :-)

    wasp nest, stick and prod come to mind.

    Ah but a short mudguard does get rid of tailgater's, my son only has to find a bit of grit with a nice sticky tyre to get them to back off

  3. #33
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    Lets put it in clear terms: The government wants to be able to put speed cameras anywhere behind you, and be able to read your license plate. If you dont put it where they can see it, they will fine you until you do....
    The one thing man learns from history is that man does not learn from history
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    Quote Originally Posted by quickbuck View Post
    It could be that I have one years experience repeated 33 times!

  4. #34
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    I think that about sums it up. So long as the Police and their cameras can see it, nice and horizontal so their image doohickies can read it, they'll be happy.

  5. #35
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    Wink

    Ticket; REGISTRATION PLATE NOT DISPLAYED IN CORRECT MANNER

    Honestly, I was pissed, I had done my bike legal and I wasn’t going to pay $200 if it meant I was admitting I was wrong! Bugger it, I’m off to Court!

    The matter before the court is one of, that you committed an offence under s 17 (a) Transport (Vehicle and Driver Registration and Licensing) Act 1986 and that you did use a motor vehicle on which the registration plate or number plate was not displayed in the correct manner.

    Law says... (Lots but this is the guts) In the case of any motorcycle, moped, tractor, or trailer, one plate shall be displayed on the rear of the vehicle in an upright position and so displayed that every letter, figure, and distinguishing mark on the plate is easily visible

    There were three things they could try for, they were not too disclosing prior to my case as to which it was;
    1. Not clearly seen, obstructed
    2. Not in an upright position
    3. Not at the rear of the motorcycle

    Basics of my argument:
    That it was as to the rear of the vehicle as possible, that was safe and visible, also that there is law that covers dangerous fittings and that mounted high the number plate could be such as it is thin and has an un-safe edge.

    That there is no description in law that states that number plates have to be mounted any which way other that upright, which in terminology is vertical or erect (check any Dictionary) mine was on a slight angle to allow the light to focus on it better, although I’d mount it better (still the same but more upright) next time. (Nothing about letters).

    I had taken the bike through the northern toll road and it showed up on my work bill, so was easily read (sideways) but they omitted that as I couldn’t prove I didn’t change it for the exercise! (Learn from that one, get a picture (might even get a speed camera one, you get a picture then, if you win, can that be claimed back as costs?)

    That the vehicle had Rego, Cert and WoF, that this fell under none of those, none of these people advised me there was something wrong, how would I as Joe Blogs Know the Law, I had a letter from the Cert and WoF guys saying such. It seems that it is only individual interpretation under the law (police) (learn from that one)

    I submitted photos of trailers (boat and horse), trucks, motorcycles etc with sideway mounted plates, new and old, also NZ Police BMW’s with recessed obstructed plates from the same angle (although now I’ve noticed they have sorted that one), police tried to omit these by saying a whole lot of stuff but basically a parting comment was along the lines, were going to stop and deal with them, given the time! (Bet that just means bikes)
    There was a lot more too it, but that’s the basics…

    By the way, there is nothing about 45⁰ or angle viewing for plates, that’s just lighting laws.

    All in all, I represented myself, it took 2 ˝ hours but many tens of hours prep.

    The decision; The Court decision is the case was not proved beyond reasonable doubt, thus the defendant is discharged.

    *** I won ***


    If you get a ticket, you have 28 days to write in to appeal; all you can do is write in explaining:

    1. It’s as far to the rear and as safely fitted as possible.
    2. That you have a WoF and Rego, they didn’t stipulate any issues as to mounting plates.
    3. That it’s fitted in an upright manner and that it can be easily seen from the rear of the vehicle.
    4. And feel free to also list my case precedent: New Zealand Police V Pearson DC AK CRI-2010-004-021568

    Now take this advice, it’s a precedent set in the District Court, it’s not very high like the Supreme or High court but the police tried to use a DC precedent against me in there and it didn’t hold.

    And yes! I will continue to mount my number plates this way in the future.

    Just don’t get pissy at the officer for pulling you!

    Remember you’re fighting your own tax dollars and NZ’s biggest patched gang

    Best of luck & God Speed.
    Last edited by Jantar; 23rd July 2012 at 12:51. Reason: oversize embedded image deleted
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  6. #36
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    All that drama.

    Wouldn't it have just been better to have mounted it the way the law intended in the first place?

    Still, seems some folk have so much time on their hands.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by rastuscat View Post
    All that drama.

    Wouldn't it have just been better to have mounted it the way the law intended in the first place?

    Still, seems some folk have so much time on their hands.
    Seems he did, or at the very least NZ's largest patched gang couldn't prove he didn't. Instead of not getting pissy with the officer perhaps he should have offered donuts

  8. #38
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    Interesting point 1/6 When the law is written they usually start with a concept. Like, plates on the rearmost point of motorcycles where it can be clearly seen by people standing behind the bike or off to either side. Then they have to start adding in all the clauses to cover off all the possible technical smart arses who might put the plate, say, lying down flat, or upside down. Quite often they finish writing the law, imagining that it does the trick. They move on, leaving interpretation to the police, the public, the courts, KB, al sorts. Then folk like you and I get to interpret the law depending on our own individual case. Another classy law is the cellphone one. I can drive down the road browsing through the music on my iPod, but I can't do exactly the same thing with the music on my iPhone. Brilliant piece of law that. Now, when the wrote the law, did they ever really intend that to happen? Is the Popo really supposed to know the difference between an iPod, an iPhone, even an iPhone with no SIM card, which makes it legal. No, it's left to the broad gray stripe of interpretation, where Joe Public expects that his interpretation is right, the Popos think theirs is right, and the courts get to decide,whether they are right or not. On the up side, it gives us something to grumble about. Lazy law wastes a lot of time though. One thing for sure, if enough of us kick the arse out of the law, it'll become political, and we will all get hammered by the next draconian version. I guess the issue comes down to what the intent of the law was in the first place. I'd suggest that having a look at where the vast majority of motorcycle plates are mounted would be a clue.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by rastuscat View Post

    Is the Popo really supposed to know the difference between an iPod, an iPhone,
    In one well publicised case they couldn't even tell a difference between celly and a Moro bar
    I've spent my money on bikes, booze and babes. The rest I've wasted....

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by rastuscat View Post
    Interesting point 1/6

    When the law is written they usually start with a concept. Like, plates on the rearmost point of motorcycles where it can be clearly seen by people standing behind the bike or off to either side.

    Then they have to start adding in all the clauses to cover off all the possible technical smart arses who might put the plate, say, lying down flat, or upside down.

    Quite often they finish writing the law, imagining that it does the trick. They move on, leaving interpretation to the police, the public, the courts, KB, al sorts. Then folk like you and I get to interpret the law depending on our own individual case.

    Another classy law is the cellphone one.

    I can drive down the road browsing through the music on my iPod, but I can't do exactly the same thing with the music on my iPhone. Brilliant piece of law that. Now, when the wrote the law, did they ever really intend tha to happen?

    No, it's left to the broad gray stripe of interpretation, where Joe Public expects that his interpretation is right, the Popos think theirs is right, and the courts get to decide,whether they are right or not.

    On the up side, it gives us something to grumble about. Lazy law wastes a lot of time though.

    One thing for sure, if enough of us kick the arse out of the law, it'll become political, and we will all get hammered by the next draconian version.

    I guess the issue comes down to what the intent of the law was in the first place. I'd suggest that having a look at where the vast majority of motorcycle plates are mounted would be a clue.
    Agreed just mount it in the usual manner in the usual place then no problem or time wasting but we are individuals and NZer's are very individualistic and as long as they are with in the law then they can do it.
    law vs legislation. Your use of the cellphone example is a good one, another case of the govt. not listening, they were warned that their knee jerk legislation was poorly written and targeted especially as there were already legislation covering lack of control of the vehicle.
    If the plate was readable by the toll camera what was the problem? It may not have fitted my or your understanding but obviously was readable, some of the mountings are taking the piss a bit and one I've seen on a sports bike was totally unreadable.
    But why is it the questionable action is around bike when every ride I see cars with unreadable number plates, and I've given up on trucks but really a bike with an unreadable plate. Is there a bit of selective targeting going on? Every car with a bike rack over the plate should have been pulled at least once by now and yet most of the drivers wouldn't even know they were breaking the law.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5150 View Post
    In one well publicised case they couldn't even tell a difference between celly and a Moro bar
    Yeah, saw that one. He'd have been okay if it had been a Pixie Caramel.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by rastuscat View Post
    Yeah, saw that one. He'd have been okay if it had been a Pixie Caramel.
    or a doughnut
    I've spent my money on bikes, booze and babes. The rest I've wasted....

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneofsix View Post
    But why is it the questionable action is around bike when every ride I see cars with unreadable number plates, and I've given up on trucks but really a bike with an unreadable plate. Is there a bit of selective targeting going on?
    Everyone who gets ticketed sees so many other people doing exactly the same thing, it makes them feel that they are being picked on. truck drivers feel picked on, so do boy racers, so do ethnic minorities, so do middle aged white males.

    Quote Originally Posted by oneofsix View Post
    car with a bike rack over the plate should have been pulled at least once by now and yet most of the drivers wouldn't even know they were breaking the law.
    Hell, that's the best example, should have thought of that.

    For decades people have been obscuring plates, mostly unintentionally. Bikes carriers are a classic case. Josephine Average wants to take the kids to school, and carries their bikes on the towbar rack she bought from the ABC Bike shop. Cop stops her, and writes her a ticket for having an obscured plate. Whose fault is that? The Popos? The bike shops? The manufacturer of the rack?

    A couple of years back the gubbermint wanted to come down on the boy racers who were obscuring their plates to avoid being tracked down after they took off from the cops. The offence got given demerit points, and a directive came down that we were to hammer obscured plates. Thing is, there are 10 Jospehines with obscured plates to every boy racer with one. Broad brush law to deal with a very small issue.

    Thing is, Josephine now can buy a third plate, one to fix on the rear of the bike rack, so it can comply with the law. But nobody ever told Josephine that. So she stacks the bikes onto the car, sets off, having no idea that she might be subject to a nasty fine and demerits.

    If there was a quota, I could fill it every day before I had driven 400 metres from the Snake Pit.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by rastuscat View Post
    For decades people have been obscuring plates, mostly unintentionally. Bikes carriers are a classic case. Josephine Average wants to take the kids to school, and carries their bikes on the towbar rack she bought from the ABC Bike shop. Cop stops her, and writes her a ticket for having an obscured plate. Whose fault is that? The Popos? The bike shops? The manufacturer of the rack?
    Pretty obvious the plate is not meant to be obscured. Up to Josephine to take it up with the bike shop for not warning her. Some bike shops even sell little white write ons to hang off the racks so its not like they don't know but i wouldn't trust the school leaver or apprentice to think to warn Josephine. Perhaps a case for warn once, ticket next time.


    Quote Originally Posted by rastuscat View Post
    Thing is, Josephine now can buy a third plate, one to fix on the rear of the bike rack, so it can comply with the law. But nobody ever told Josephine that. So she stacks the bikes onto the car, sets off, having no idea that she might be subject to a nasty fine and demerits.
    Only found out about that little gem of a third plate through the letters to the AA mag. The AA didn't mention it, it was another member using the letters to the editor a bit like a forum. to the letter writer. Wonder if the bike shops and cycle clubs know about that and do the verious clubs bother to inform their members?

    Quote Originally Posted by rastuscat View Post
    If there was a quota, I could fill it every day before I had driven 400 metres from the Snake Pit.
    Well if the donut account ever needs a top up

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneofsix View Post

    Well if the donut account ever needs a top up
    Hence now I carry Dunkin Donut vouchers as bribe currency just for these occasions
    I've spent my money on bikes, booze and babes. The rest I've wasted....

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