A miner issue

[Banditbandit]

The people I'm believing are the miners and experienced rescuers, who are the ones calling fuck up, not Campsmell, sonny!

In fact, YOUR the one parroting the media

Maybe .. unless you are one of the families , or one of the mine staff, everything you know is filtered through the media ... they pick and choose which bits to show you and which bits not to show you ...

I've been a working journalist - I'd be pumping this story as hard as I could .. and they are ...

It would be a miracle if anyone survived the blast - As I heard a mother on Nat Radio say this morning, she knew on FRiday that her son was not coming home alive ..

But we won't know until someone gets into the mine to look ... and it's not worth repeating the Australian example - going in too soon - having a second explosion and killing the rescuers ...

Of course the miners would go down the mine to look for their mates - they'd take the risk ... then if it blew again, someone else woud be in the gun for letting them go ...

And the miners outside don't want to think that it would take this long to get them out if it happened to them ... otherwise they might not go down there themselves ... would you ?

[imdying]

They're not in a hurry to risk more lives because they're already dead.

If they're not, and they've survived this long (hopefully, it could happen, it's a funny shape in there, maybe somebody survived) then a few more days hopefully won't matter.

Yay for the media putting comments from grieving fathers on the news making them sound like cocks. Fuck TV3, I'd have no problem driving a van full of fertiliser through their front door. Jihad that you wankers.

[Genestho]

(Not my words) "I work in the mining industry and have spent time at Pike River as well as other various mines around NZ, I work underground and understand the dangers and risks associated with working in gassy mines, I know a couple of the guys down there and want them out as much as anyone else.

I have been involved (indirectly) with the rescue attempt by supplying and co-ordinating the delivery of the gas sampling tubes that are currently being installed to measure the mine gasses down the pilot hole being bored to the working faces.

I have heard a lot of talk over the last five days about what the rescuers are 'not' doing, how 'slow' the rescuers have been to respond and how things could be done a whole lot better. I have heard comments where people are saying 'just let the rescuers in there' and 'why don't the rescuers just wear a rubber suit to prevent sparks' etc.

These types of comments are being made by people that do not fully understand the complexities of mine gasses and the atmosphere that remains after an explosion.

The atmosphere that remains after a 'Coal' mine explosion is known in the coal mining industry as 'Afterdamp', this is an atmosphere which is Oxygen deficient and is rich in Carbon Monoxide and Methane, it also has a number of other Flammable and Toxic gasses present depending on the type of coal in the mine and what materials are in the mine at the time of the explosion and may be burning as a result (rubber, timber etc).

Afterdamp is an extremely dangerous atmosphere and must be managed very carefully.

The dilemma the rescuers face now is that 'accurate' gas readings cannot be taken from outside the mine vent shaft or main entrance portal.

The Borehole: This is the best option currently available, the borehole will allow gas sampling tubes to be lowered down to take gas readings, listen for any noises and measure temperatures.

The Robot: A long shot but worth a go, the robots primary objective is to take gas readings. In the main access tunnel there are air & water pipes, electrical cables, ventilation ducting, spare conveyor rollers, timber blocks, steel mesh sheets and whole list of other consumable items used daily underground. All of these materials would be picked and and strewn all over the tunnel. There is no way the robot was ever going to negotiate all of that debris, not to mention the atmosphere will be full of smoke so the robot operator will have very limited visibility (maybe up to a metre, if at all). The Robot was probably being guided by sonar due to poor visibilty, remember also it is dragging a control cable behind it which is likely to snag on the first hurdle.

Once accurate gas readings are collected the rescuers will know exactly what they are dealing with.

Q: Where does Methane come from?

A: Methane occurs naturally in 'Newly Won' coal (coal that is recently exposed to air during normal mining operations), after an explosion there could be a lot of coal that is exposed to air resulting in increased levels of Methane.

Q: Why don't they just send someone in with a breathing set?

A: Because accurate gas readings cannot be taken the rescuers do not know what is going on, unfortunately a second explosion is almost inevitable. Methane is explosive between 5%-15%, at the moment the Methane level in the mine could be up around 50% and could also be as low as 17%, if the Methane level reaches 15% a secondary explosion will very likely occur.

A second explosion could happen literally at any time without warning and could potentially be much, much bigger than the initial explosion.

The rise and fall in the barometer can also have a huge affect on mine gasses.

Example:

1. High Barometric Pressure (fine weather) pushes Methane back into the mine and can lower Methane levels.

2. Low Barometric Pressure (cloudy / bad weather) allows Methane to be released more easily out of coal and can increase Methane levels.

Lets say the weather outside is cloudy and the Methane level in the mine is at 17% (too rich to burn), the weather turns fine (the barometer rises) and pushes the Methane out the ventilation shaft and back into the coal faces. The concentration of Methane in the mine falls into the 5-15% range and ignites with the fires currently going on underground (we know there are fires because of the Carbon Monoxide readings being taken).

If this Methane ignites we could have a much bigger explosion, if rescuers are underground conducting a search (remember the atmosphere is filled with smoke and will have limited visibility) we could have an even bigger rescue / recovery mission on our hands.

This post is a bit long winded sorry, but this situation is something I am very concerned about and think about on a daily basis when I am underground.

I hope I have explained the actions of the rescuers to give the general public a better understanding of why the decisions that are being made are in everyones best interests. I want people to understand that the situation at Pike is extremely dire and everything that can possibly be done is being done."

[scumdog]

Yeah, the world's full of armchair experts...

Particularly the KB armchair/key-board experts....

[scumdog]

Maybe if you guys feel so strongly about helping you could pop over the Pike River and have a go yourselves?

What??

They'd have to step away from their beloved key-boards.......

[Banditbandit]

This post is a bit long winded sorry

Thank you. It was worth the read.

[Genestho]

"Unfortunately the odds are very highly stacked against the boys underground, I feel that by informing the public of the decisions that are being made will better prepare the families and the public for what the future holds.

Hopefully one day the people who have criticised the actions of the Police and the Rescue Teams will realise that the decisions that have been made were the best and at the time, and that further loss of life was prevented.

I am an eternal optimist however, eventually we will all have to face reality.

My heart truly goes out to Police Superintendent Gary Knowles, Mr Knowles has statutory control of the situation but he is merely relaying the findings and operating on the advice of the mines rescue teams from NZ and overseas.

Once the gas readings have been analysed a VERY big call will have to be made.

**DELETED***

This is a truly catastrophic event and all we can do is support those who have been affected."

[onearmedbandit]

I work in the mining industry....[snip] ... I want people to understand that the situation at Pike is extremely dire and everything that can possibly be done is being done.

Everyone who says they can do this better, or would have gone in there straight away etc etc etc, I'd like to see you argue with T.G.W's post. Please. Go on.

[scott411]

I work in the mining industry and have spent time at Pike River as well as other various mines around NZ, I work underground and understand the dangers and risks associated with working in gassy mines, I know a couple of the guys down there and want them out as much as anyone else.

I have been involved (indirectly) with the rescue attempt by supplying and co-ordinating the delivery of the gas sampling tubes that are currently being installed to measure the mine gasses down the pilot hole being bored to the working faces.

that is a very good read, thanks, i wish your mates all the best

[Grubber]

I work in the mining industry and have spent time at Pike River as well as other various mines around NZ, I work underground and understand the dangers and risks associated with working in gassy mines, I know a couple of the guys down there and want them out as much as anyone else.

I have been involved (indirectly) with the rescue attempt by supplying and co-ordinating the delivery of the gas sampling tubes that are currently being installed to measure the mine gasses down the pilot hole being bored to the working faces.

(Snip)

This post is a bit long winded sorry, but this situation is something I am very concerned about and think about on a daily basis when I am underground.

I hope I have explained the actions of the rescuers to give the general public a better understanding of why the decisions that are being made are in everyones best interests. I want people to understand that the situation at Pike is extremely dire and everything that can possibly be done is being done.

Long winded or not, that was brilliant. Thanks for that.
Now maybe this will silence the critics.

[Genestho]

Hangon, sorry this is not my words btw - just relaying the message

I think it 'brilliant' because the public and the families needed to know this from one who knows.

[EJK]

Don't feel good about this.

[HenryDorsetCase]

(Not my words) "I work in the mining industry and have spent time at Pike River
[snip]
I hope I have explained the actions of the rescuers to give the general public a better understanding of why the decisions that are being made are in everyones best interests. I want people to understand that the situation at Pike is extremely dire and everything that can possibly be done is being done."

thanks for that

[HenryDorsetCase]

What??

They'd have to step away from their beloved key-boards.......

I heard of a guy who spilt some of his love on his keyboard once.

[Woodman]

Thanks TGW for getting an explanation to us.

We will know the fate of the poor buggers shortly. Just found out that an old rugby mates son is down there.

Not good.