Lack of on-road time for learner drivers

[PrincessBandit]

There was an interesting article this morning on the interdweeb about the pathetic lack of practice hours New Zealand learner drivers get before being able to sit their Restricted, i.e. legally go solo on the road.

The claim is that they should have at least 120 hours before being able to handle a vehicle without supervision but most are barely getting a 10th of that. They also said that parents tend to teach their children in the style that they drive, often without extended instruction on hazard identification and reinforcement of mirror and blind spot checking.

I'm still waiting to hear why they won't enforce the same restrictions on learner drivers that learner motorcyclists have. e.g. limiting engine/hp capacity of what you can drive on your L and R, limiting speeds that you can legally travel at. While I hear the "anti-speed restriction" supporters suck their breath in for an oft-trotted out "speed doesn't kill" bashing, maybe learner drivers should be in the same boat as us. Drivers in New Zealand are notoriously inconsiderate, self-centred and impatient - perhaps if it was legally required that learners of all modes of motorised transport had to bring their speed down the heat would come off learner motorbike riders because all would be in the same boat.

I'm sure most people would agree that while speed restriction is not necessarily the be all and end all it does allow for more reaction time, especially for new drivers/riders who don't have the same hazard awareness or simply environmental awareness that more experienced motorists should have. (Note, should being the operative word).

Perhaps the reluctance to restrict engine size for learner drivers is due to families not wanting to fork out for a another car to accommodate little Johnny's or Sharon's motoring needs (it's quite ok to expect riders to do it though....) Then there is the whole "I don't have to worry about my speed because my tin can will protect me" mentality, as if the safety of all other road users are irrelevant in the equation.

Whatever tougher measures are brought in next year for the GDL process I bet imposing the same restrictions that motorcyclists face (whether they actually observe them or not) won't be part of it. Mores the pity.

[Scuba_Steve]

My major change would be ALL learners are on 2-wheels (learn the road before you get a 1-2 tonne killing machine).

But one of the biggest problems was pointed out on Campbell by the chick in da crash, she was "confident" & as far as she was concerned it was her "right" to drive. That right there is the biggest problem, people think it is their right, till it is re-understood driving is a privilege NOT a right we will always have problem drivers

[neels]

It just comes down to personal choice really (or in our case making choices for our children), I wasn't letting our son loose on the road by himself until I was happy that he was as competent as possible.

he would have had well in excess of 120 hours on his learners, and waited about 10 months before he got his restricted, after he had been to a driving instructor for a few lessons to make sure he had things right.

He also learnt to drive in a 1600 4cyl manual with no power steering that we bought for the job so he could learn how to operate a proper car, before he got lazy and started driving autos, turns out that wasn't an issue as he wanted a manual when he bought himself a car anyway.

Once again it's making laws to force stupid people to do what they should be doing anyway.

[Scuba_Steve]

It just comes down to personal choice really (or in our case making choices for our children), I wasn't letting our son loose on the road by himself until I was happy that he was as competent as possible.

That's another problem with people nowadays you've pointed out no one wants to parent you've obviously made the right choice in teaching your kid/s but most parents don't, once their kid can move the vehicle as far as they're concerned they've learnt to drive, after all everyone does it & its a "right" right? which also shows major failure in our restricted licence test for allowing them 2 pass.

Once again it's making laws to force stupid people to do what they should be doing anyway.

true that, we shouldn't need laws for parents to parent!

[Juzz976]

I think compulsory insurance is good.

When you do the maths, If my kids were learning to drive my premiums for my just car would go from $1200 pa to $1800 and the excess goes upto $1200 if they were driving.

At those rates I'd get an additional car eg something 1.8-2L that I don't care if it scrapes a fence or letter box... and insure for 3rd party.

The other point is to teach general care and maintenance of the vehicle.
If its their responsibility to keep the the vehicle is safe running order then they're going to drive more responsibly or not at all.

Drivings a privilege we all take for granted, licencing fees need to go up but only to pay for a decent training and testing system.

[White trash]

Make it possible to gain a licence to ride a 125cc four stroke or less at 16 years old, earliest car licence at 18 years.

Simple.

[Usarka]

120 hours?????

You can fly a plane by yourself after about 10 hours and get a licence in 50......

[Scuba_Steve]

I think compulsory insurance is good.

be careful what you wish for there, on face value it appears a good idea right? study into it and you'll find all it does is increases cost of insurance mainly because 96% of New Zealanders have at-least 3rd party insurance and of those that don't have any 89% of them are uninsurable, so you have very little chance at being better off with compulsory insurance & in fact more likely to be worse off with the increase in prices it brings.

[The Baron]

I see bad drivers both bikes and cars every day as do most of us.

Anybody can teach - and they do. So if the standard of teaching is not controlled, it doesn't matter if they do one hour or 120 hours.

How many people on NZ roads are self taught? Then go and train someone else.

[imdying]

I think compulsory insurance is good.

Once they have you by the nuts like that, they'll keep raising the premiums untill you bleed. Unless NZ turns out differently to other countries with it... could happen I suppose, but I doubt it. Those without insurance now still won't get it.

[p.dath]

They also said that parents tend to teach their children in the style that they drive, often without extended instruction on hazard identification and reinforcement of mirror and blind spot checking.

I don't agree with this bit at all. Having situational awareness is probably one of the most important skills of being a road user (in my opinion).

Also it makes the assumption that the "style" the parents drive is in fact good, and that the parents are capable of being good teachers.

There is no relationship to being a good driver and a good teacher.

I'm still waiting to hear why they won't enforce the same restrictions on learner drivers that learner motorcyclists have. e.g. limiting engine/hp capacity of what you can drive on your L and R, limiting speeds that you can legally travel at. While I hear the "anti-speed restriction" supporters suck their breath in for an oft-trotted out "speed doesn't kill" bashing, maybe learner drivers should be in the same boat as us. Drivers in New Zealand are notoriously inconsiderate, self-centred and impatient - perhaps if it was legally required that learners of all modes of motorised transport had to bring their speed down the heat would come off learner motorbike riders because all would be in the same boat.

FYI, the 2011 road rule amendment legislation which is currently having submissions called for is proposing that the 70km/h restriction be dropped. Because this legislation is already drafted, I think it is very likely to occur.

My "guess" is most learner riders tend to be a little older than learner drivers, and as a result, they purchase their own motorcycle to learn to ride on, rather than using a parents bike.
While (my "guess" again) is that most learner drivers start while they still live at home, and the learner driver is not earning money to buy a separate car.

So there are some economic differences. Doesn't make it right, but it's a extra factor to consider. The changes will affect the fabric of society.

[Swoop]

120 hours?????

You can fly a plane by yourself after about 10 hours and get a licence in 50......

If aviation followed the approaches used to get a driving licence, people would solo after 2 hrs...