TIG welder advice

[Padmei]

I've been looking at MIGs to do a bit of welding like footpegs subframes etc & a welder mate & engineering shop owner told me to go with a TIG for a better finish & better for finer work.

I've searched this forum & found a couple of past threads on welding that have been very informative.

I am wondering if any welders here could offer advice on these units. I don't want to spend a lot of money so $500 is prob top dollar for the bits I use it for.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=333579150

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=332683494

They seem to be 60hz & inverter type which have been recommended & should be grunty enough.

[The Pastor]

on modern bikes (beling ali based) you'd prob want an AC welder? Not 100% on this someone who knows more will be able to comment, but as far as i know (which isnt much!) DC is only good for steel

[Padmei]

on modern bikes (beling ali based) you'd prob want an AC welder? Not 100% on this someone who knows more will be able to comment, but as far as i know (which isnt much!) DC is only good for steel

Ha!! I got me one of them BMwobbleUs - old & steel!!

AC is expensive - $1300 min.

For ali welding I'll pay $20 for my friendly engineering shop to put a few tacks on.

[The Pastor]

i think the thing to look at for welders is the duty cycle - its the amount of down time you have to give the machine when working, like weld for 5 mins rest for 3. Duty cycles (iirc) are given in % so i dunno how that works out lol. Hopefully someone here has a practical knowledge ( I have only done a short welding course about 2 years ago)

[jellywrestler]

i bought a tig recently, bloody awesome but it's both ac and dc. if you're only gonna spend that amount forget doing alloy and pay someone to do it for you.
alloys harder and if only doing it occasionally it's quite difficult to get you;re head around, then you can stuff it up easily. another reason to pay an expert

[Hopeful Bastard]

Really, It depends on how well your welding skills are.

I prefer Arc Welding.. I dont know why though.

But yeah, As you know, The aim of the game is Penetration and then work on your tidiness.

Make sure ya practice on some sample metals before ya go about the work

And good luck!

[Padmei]

i bought a tig recently, bloody awesome but it's both ac and dc. if you're only gonna spend that amount forget doing alloy and pay someone to do it for you.
alloys harder and if only doing it occasionally it's quite difficult to get you;re head around, then you can stuff it up easily. another reason to pay an expert

Excellent I love hearing stuff like that -makes me reassured I'm going downthe right path. What about the cheapos I'm looking at tho- a waste of money or a reflection of the gradual drop in price of stuff.
cheers

[porky]

1. can you tig weld?
2. If not, can you gas weld and therefore understand the principal of both hands performing different roles simultanously.
3. if you answer no to the above and have no one to teach you, recommend a mig and a good grinder.
Yes a tig in a tradesmans hands looks a work of art, for the rest of us, it looks like an expensive pile of shit. (hence why i have a mig and a very good grinder)

Yup duty cycle are expressed as a %, but for most frame work you would end up with a pile of molten metal on the garage floor before the unit tripped out. Other advantage of a mig on steel is you can run co2. It is the same gas that they use to charge kegs, so instead of a bottle hire, get friendly with a publican. ( last one cost me $32 from memory)

[jellywrestler]

1. can you tig weld?
2. If not, can you gas weld and therefore understand the principal of both hands performing different roles simultanously.
3. if you answer no to the above and have no one to teach you, recommend a mig and a good grinder.
Yes a tig in a tradesmans hands looks a work of art, for the rest of us, it looks like an expensive pile of shit. (hence why i have a mig and a very good grinder)

Yup duty cycle are expressed as a %, but for most frame work you would end up with a pile of molten metal on the garage floor before the unit tripped out. Other advantage of a mig on steel is you can run co2. It is the same gas that they use to charge kegs, so instead of a bottle hire, get friendly with a publican. ( last one cost me $32 from memory)

i much prefer tig to mig. mig wont make light till ya welding, then you've got to work at it's pace whether you like it or not and once you've welded you're stuck with it(or grind off and redo)(
whereas tig you have light as soon as you fire up and you can work at your own pace, stop and restart where you left off tidy and if you dont like it melt it and go over it again
i was set on a mig till i spent just five mins on a tig

[Rhubarb]

If you want to Tig weld Aluminium you'll need AC. Probably $2000+

You can't Arc (or stick) weld Aluminium. You can Mig alumium.

Steel and stainless steel can be mig, tig (DC) or arc welded.

On contract you can hire D size gas bottles for about $15 per month. I think they also do short term hires.

Tig in the hands of an expert is truly an art form.

[Bikemad]

as far as i know duty cycle in % relates to per hour......for example if the machine says 50% duty cycle its good for continuous welding for half an hour in any hour of use.........i think.....also you need different tungstens when tigging between mild or stainless steel and ali...........thoriated red tip.........zirconated white tip.......cant remember which is which sorry.......D/C for mild or stainless.....A/C for ali

[Padmei]

Thanks for the replies.

I have mig welded a couple of small projects (12m of steel ballistraid with rods every 100mm) & apart from the occasional non sticking rod I was pretty pleased with the result. That was with a mates expensive industrial one tho.
Apart from that I will be learning as I go & that's what I'm into.If it takes me a lot of failed attempts before I get it right then so be it - all part of the learning curve.

I understand that the gas for a tig is expensive? What are we talking about for someone like me who may only use the unit once every couple of months? Do you have to buy expensive bottles or have an ongoing account?

[jellywrestler]

Thanks for the replies.

I have mig welded a couple of small projects (12m of steel ballistraid with rods every 100mm) & apart from the occasional non sticking rod I was pretty pleased with the result. That was with a mates expensive industrial one tho.
Apart from that I will be learning as I go & that's what I'm into.If it takes me a lot of failed attempts before I get it right then so be it - all part of the learning curve.

I understand that the gas for a tig is expensive? What are we talking about for someone like me who may only use the unit once every couple of months? Do you have to buy expensive bottles or have an ongoing account?

i couldn't buy a bottle, only rent it, check with BOC for the rates

[geoffm]

You can buy new and 2nd hand bottles. The 2nd hand machinery dealers just out of Hamilton have them from time to time, and new ones are on Trademe.
Suapgas refill and test them. Avoid BOC and Air Liquide like the greedy crooks they are.
A new budget AC tig to do ali is around $1k. Pulse is nice on thin stuff.
One alternative is (if you can find one) a HF add on box for an AC arc welder for ali, andaDC rectifier for steel. The HF box is what I use fro the last 10 years, but I will replace it with a new inverter machine when I get money.

[Ocean1]

They seem to be 60hz & inverter type which have been recommended & should be grunty enough.

They're big enough but they don't have enough knobs. I'm afraid it's a case of the less you pay the harder they are to use. With the simple inverter types one feature you won't know you should have is a high frequency start. You can scratch start it, but the accumulation of little difficulties isn't what a novice needs.

Can you go talk to a tutor at the local tech? Even if you don't want to do a couple of evening courses, (and you should) he should be able to run over the pros and cons of some mid-range machines. Those start at about not much less than a grand new though.

Oh, and you can get disposable bottles now, could be cost effective for irregular use, I just don't know where from...