Originally Posted by ducatilover
Aio ki te Aorangi
I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!
Jam and tarts....
Love and peace broooooooooo.
Alloy, stainless and Ti polishing.
Bling your bike out!
PM me
Hardcore Biker
Tena kotou Tena kotou Tena kotou katoa.
Tu ana au ki nga tihi tapu o nga pae maunga o te wharetapu o ngapuhi. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBm9m...eature=related
Us, 'Maori' are lost, we are no more. There are no full blooded Maori left just halfies and quarter europeans we still have the culture the tikanga to embrace. But yet....the government make statistics out of us?? Like how many are in prison - the Government have the flexibility to chose which part the criminal belongs too when they fail and which part of them when they succeed to suit the demographics.
I bet you never knew Dan Carter is 'Maori', you know the best fh in the world and sexiest man in Nz according to the magazines, his father is from Ngati Tahu and only a 'maori' male can pass the titleship of Rangatira. But you might say hes only got a little bit in him, so does every other blarrrdy 'Maori!'
We do come from Hawaiiki, the biologists should use their time and resources to find out where that exact place is instead of 9/10 trying to prove 'white' people were here before Maori as an excuse for the injustices - you know this is true.
Im fine if Celtics were here before us or any other forgotten race because my homeland is Hawaiiki not here. However I find it hard to beleive celtics were here when I found out my ancestors were fond of stone so much so they built and lived in beehive stone like houses and created stone formations and statues on Easter Island. *see photo
There is no conclusive evidence to this day of Mori Ori stepping a single foot on what we know is New Zealand, rather on a island far in the pacific called Chatham Islands.
Lastly, we do not directly come from Asians, it has been fact that we come from two different people. The women come from Taiwan and the men come from Melanesian stock - fijian, png along with other snippets of polynesian. The asian women used us as tour guides around the pacific for trade we took them too the americas and picked up the kumara and many other things. We breifly stayed on Hawaii, Easter Island, Marquesan Islands, Society Islands, Tonga, Tahiti, Pitcairn Islands, Samoa, fiji, RaroTonga -Cook Islands to here. = http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s823810.htm
Anyways you all have a good day its a sunny one, and I hope this helps clear things up. Enoho Ra
Blowin up bikes since ages ago
Oh Deanis, it's been awhile......
"Some people are like clouds, once they fuck off, it's a great day!"
Fully Foxed
DEAN!!!
You have cleaned the sand out of your Vagina then?
Aio ki te Aorangi
meanwhile back in 21st century New Zealand
Sorry Dean, as interesting as that is, the world is a completely different place. Wasting air discussing who did what to who and who stole what from who 150+ years ago kinda gets very boring very quickly and is VERY expensive too... because they are ALL dead and who knows what really happened!
Fully Foxed
From The above link
So when you say cuz you really mean it huh?Adele Whyte: Okay, basically we found that there would have had to have been at least 56 women on the original Waka that came to New Zealand.
Fully Foxed
OI. Quiet in the back seat you socialist scum...meanwhile back in 21st century New Zealand
Sorry Dean, as interesting as that is, the world is a completely different place. Wasting air discussing who did what to who and who stole what from who 150+ years ago kinda gets very boring very quickly and is VERY expensive too... because they are ALL dead and who knows what really happened!
Just cos your right this one time :-)
Aio ki te Aorangi
Cuuuuuuuuuuumon you Redsand i prefer the term Humanitarian tyvm
...
i'm never right, tis just that sometimes folk agree with me
Anarchic Wild Child
Kia ora ano
OK .. here it comes - it's longish and I've chopped it up into three posts - it also covers a lot of ground ... touching briefly on many points ... so please let me post it all before you start responding ...
Please also TRY and read it all ... and note the half apology at the beginning - I didn't want to waste time editing it to change the first/second person plurals ... that's just the way some of us talk ...
Then I'll try to answer some of the questiosn above - and discuss your responses.
"So if you meet me, have some sympathy, have some courtesy, have some taste ..."
Anarchic Wild Child
Āku mihi ki a koutou, ngā tangata e panui ana tēnei kōrero. Taku hiahia ka ako koutou ō nga wkakaaro o te iwi Māori.
First of all, I want to frame our shared history in a slightly different way to what most of you will be used to. The history many of you have learnt in school is a version of history that serves the interests on the colonizing immigrants. This is one of our histories. It is not an overall Māori history, it is the history, in broad brush, of my Iwi, why most of you know as Whanganui, but is actually called Te Ati Haunui-a-Paparangi.
(As I read this, I see that I have written in first/second people plural – that’s our way of expressing it, one of the seemingly small differences between us – but one that can and does lead to problems between us. Please do not take it personally, as I believe that we have all inherited the mess – and we are not responsible for the mess. We are not responsible for the past and I don’t mean it that way. We ARE responsible for the future.)
Tēnei ta matou korero tawhito ....
In the beginning of time in this country a group of people arrived, known as Paerangi, named for their leader. No-one knows where they came from, and some stories I have been told say they were created here. But most stories say they journeyed here. They were the first people in that area.
Paerangi and his people settled around the base of Ruapehu. As they multiplied, they spread down the fertile valleys of the Whanganui. When Kupe journeyed here from Tahiti (or Tawhiti in our way), he travelled up the Whanganui and climbed a hill. In the distance he saw the villages and fires of Paerangi, saw the land was occupied, and left without making contact.
On his return to Tahiti, Kupe told his brother-in-law Turi of a beautiful lake he had seen in the new land. It was in a very fertile and unoccupied area. Turi, in conflict with the high chief Uenuku (population pressures) took his wife and his people and sailed for the new land on Aotea Waka. He landed in the Auckland area, and his people dragged Aotea waka across the small piece of land between the harbours, and sailed down the west coast to what is now called Aotea Harbour. They left their waka and travelled across land to the lake – Patea – where they settled.
As they multiplied, the people of Aotea Waka spread out and explored the new land. They came in contact with the people of Paerangi, and as they were human beings they fought, they intermarried – they did human things. (And yes, after a battle they may well have eaten some of the enemy ... I’ll look at that one later ...)
A man called Pamoana, who was born in the Patea area, travelled into the river and met and fell in love with a high born woman called Tauiri. The couple wed and were given a home and land at Otukopiri (now known as Koriniti). My hapu is named Ngati Pamoana, after the man from Aotea Waka.
From this intermingling of the people of the river, Paerangi, and the people of Aotea Waka the iwi of Te Ati-Haunui-a-Paparangi was formed.
When white people arrived, they were welcomed. My ancestors could see the benefits of the new world and jumped in with both feet. The white people were sold land at the mouth of the river and the city began. Upriver my ancestors grew wheat, which they milled in their own flour mills, and brought it down river to sell to the white people. They also had apple orchards, peach orchards and other crops which they sold in the new town. They brought canoe-loads of firewood to sell in the new town. The people of Whanganui would not have survived without the help of Te Ati Haunui-a-Paparangi.
In May, 1864, the Hauhau travelled down the river to attack the town of Whanganui. They were stopped by the warriors of my hapu at Moutoa Island, in the river 55ks from Whanganui. During this battle the waka Teremoe was captured from the Hauhau by my hapu. IT was gifted to the National Museum, and still stands in Te Papa ... many of you will have seen it.
The grateful Pākehā took our village, Pakaitore, and turned it into a park, with a memorial to the battle of Moutoa Island. They called it Moutoa Gardens. Pakaitore was our summer fishing village. It was not sold as part of the Whanganui purchase as it did not belong to the people of that area, who sold the land to the settlers. It belonged to the people upriver, as a summer fishing village. When the town was built, it was where we sold our food and firewood, our goods to the Pākehā. It was known by the Pākehā as Market Square. After it was taken we had nowhere inthe city to camp for summer fishing, or to sell our goods to the Pākehā.
When Titokowaru rampaged out of Southern Taranaki we fought against him, saving Whanganui from complete destruction. Titokowaru and his warriors were camped at what is now Virginia Lake, on the hills overlooking the town. Whanganui warriors were part of the fight that pushed him back to Taranaki. Our warriors were lead by Kepa Te Rangihiwinui (known to the Pākehā as Major Kemp). The grateful Pākehā soldiers camped on Market Square. Did they ask us if they could do that? No.
Now, being human beings, the people of the iwi and the settlers intermarried. Today, Te Ati Haunui-a-Paparangi includes descendents from every group of people who have come to this country. I have relations with Asian eyes, I have seen two women sitting side by side who you would swear were sisters, if not twins, except one had brown hair, brown eyes and a dark skin, while the other had blonde hair, blue eyes and pale skin. I have met a man from the iwi who talks of his ancestor the Rev Norman MacLeod, who lead his people to settle south of Whangarei . I can also whakapapa to this group of Pākehā settlers. We share common Māori and Pākehā ancestors.
These are all people of Te Ati Haunui-a-Paparangi – and our whakapapa includes ALL groups who have come to this land – from Paerangi, to Aotea Waka – to the English, the Scots, the Irish, the Asian – All groups. We do not consider them Māori or Pākehā – they are Te Ati Haunui-a-Paparangi. These people have all been welcomed for what they offered, given homes and lands, taken to our beds – are US.
The wharenui, (meeting house) at Koriniti is called Waiherehere – the coming together of streams. But the allusion here is not to rivers or creaks joining but to the coming together of Māori and Pākehā as one – walking into the future together. We have yet to see this happen.
This is our history – Te Ati-Haunui-a-Paparangi – and it is an inclusive history – a history of us – all the people who have been born to, contributed to, and make up Te Ati-Haunui-a-Paparangi. It does not tell of Māori and Pākehā – this history says we are all Te Ati-Haunui-a-Paparangi.
We took you into our hearts, our homes, our beds. We fed you, we defended you – and what did you do in return? Steal more of our land, destroy our economic base and relegated us to second-class citizens. Force us into Native Schools to learn to be farm labourers and domestic servants when we wanted to be doctors, lawyers and teachers. You tell derogatory jokes about us. You pass laws that stop us using the courts to settle grievances and arguments .... We are your friends and relations – your children, grandchildren, wives and husbands ... why do you treat us that way ?
You say you are New Zealanders – I don’t disagree at all. We were all born here. But what you mean is not what we mean ... when we say “Us” we mean all the members of Te Ati Haunui-a-Paparangi ... our symbolism and history is of welcoming the newcomers to this land and making them at home ... (we are all human – no-one is perfect – no group is superior) When you say “Us” it is always in relation to “them” – Māori ... You exclude us, tell derogatory jokes about us, consider us lazy and ignorant ... consider yourselves better ... Why?
We say “What is the most important thing in this world? It is People – People – People” You seem to say “It is things, things things ...”
Let me break this post here and continue that theme later.
"So if you meet me, have some sympathy, have some courtesy, have some taste ..."
Anarchic Wild Child
So - Your histories say that Captain Cook discovered this country and that the white people settled here and saved the savages from themselves and civilized us ...
We would disagree. We discovered these islands.
Captain Cook arrived in Tahiti and met a leader, Tupaia, a tohunga, who drew a map of the Pacific Ocean showing 36 named islands, including two in the southern area called Aotea and Pounamu. Cook’s redrawing of Tupaia’s map is still in the British Museum. Tupaia sailed here with Cook – Tupaia showed him where Aotea and Pounamu were.
Cooks instructions from the Royal Society, which sponsored his first voyage in the Endeavour, are interesting. The Earl of Morton wrote that Cook should avoid violence whenever possible. “They are the natural, and in the strictest sense of the word, the legal possessors of the several regions they inhabit. No European has a right occupy any part of their country, or to settle among them without their voluntary consent. Conquest over such people can give no just title; because they could never be aggressors. They may naturally and justly attempt to repel intruders, whom they may apprehend are come to disturb them in the quiet possession of their country. Therefore should they in a hostile manner oppose a landing, and kill some men in the attempt, even this would hardly justify firing among them, ‘til every other gentle method had been tried.”
Cook records that conflicts did arise, but attributed them to a lack of knowledge of the ways of the people of the new country. Has it really changed? Have Pākehā in New Zealand taken the time to learn our ways? We have been forced to learn yours – what do most of you know about ours?
Tasman had arrived 100 years earlier (he was lost). Tasman never landed, but had encounters with people in the area now known as Tasman bay. Waka paddled out close to Tasman’s ship and challenged the crew by blowing Pukaea (sounds like a trumpet). Tasman’s crew responded by blowing their own trumpets – a clear signal to the waka that they were there to fight, so the people in the waka got in first – they attacked. Tasman of course, labelled them murderous savages, and the area is called Murderers Bay.
Morton wrote his instructions in 1768. So what happened?
Cook travelled around the country, charting it, meeting people, fishing for food, taking plants for food and trees for timber – firewood and repairs to the Endeavour. In Tamatea (Dusky Sound) he records taking 200lbs of fish PER DAY to feed the crew. That had a major effect on the resources that fed our ancestors. Today we complain of overseas fishing boats taking our fish and depleting our resources. Cook’s one ship had a major effect on our resources. The modern complaint does not look so modern to us. If you object to the international fishing fleets taking our fish - we have felt that way since the late 18th Century.
In the north, ships that arrived here, landed crew and cut down trees for firewood and repairs. Many of these trees were named and had been passed from generation to generation as a resource because of the bird life they attracted. They belonged to family groups. The white people arrived and cut them down without permission. When we learnt what you wanted, we cut down trees you could take and sold them to ships. But the white sailors continued to take our trees without permission. The sailors shot hundreds of birds (our food resources) for food – without permission. When we tried to gain things in payment you got angry, called us thieves and shot at us. When we were angry enough to try to stop you taking our food resources, you called us murderous savages and shot at us. Was it any wonder the sailors were attacked? Many of you reading this would have done the same if invaders came and took your resources.
And you traded one iron nail for trees sold in England for 80 pounds – a huge profit. You traded something of immense value to us, but you knew you were ripping us off. It is recorded in the logs and diaries of the ships that you were getting the better of the deal by a huge amount. We had cut down our resources, that fed, clothed and housed us, and you knowingly ripped us off.
You gave us plants and showed us how to grow them. We cleared forest and planted gardens so when more ships arrived we had wheat, potatoes, beans, cabbages, peas and turnips as well as our own food to sell to you. Some of the white sailors, when told that we had no food to sell because the crops were not ready, rampaged through our villages, pillaging goods and overturning our new crops looking for food which we had said was not there. They found it was not. Later we had pig and goat meat to sell you, then chicken and beef. We worked hard to create goods to trade – now you call us lazy – what happened between us?
When Cook was in Totora-nui (Queen Charlotte Sound) he planted a pole on an island, and had a ceremony to mark his time there. When he returned his was disappointed to find the island empty and the people he had met gone. To us, the ceremony and the erection of the pole signalled that Cook had put his mana on the island – so we left it for him.
You infected us with VD and other diseases, which killed us in large numbers.
In the early 1800s hundreds of sealers came to these shores and killed off the seals- a resource that had fed our people for generations. Did they ask?
In around 1811 Ruatara (from the north) was in Port Jackson (Sydney) and saw there was a depression and starvation. He conceived the idea of growing wheat on his land, shipping it to Sydney to sell to feed people. It was the beginning. By 1860 there were something like 60 Māori-owned trading ships plying the waters around NZ and the Tasman – shipping Māori produce and goods for sail in essentially European markets. We jumped into Capitalism and the new world with both feet. Today the percentage of entrepreneurs per capita amongst Māori is the highest in the world. And you call us lazy?
We had one of the highest and fastest pickup rates for literacy of any oral culture. By 1860 90% of Māori could read and write. So much for us being ignorant savages.
You called us barbaric savages, and were horrified we ate people. We were horrified at your ways.
We were horrified at the way you flogged sailors for small offences. In 1805 a leader from the Bay of Islands Te Pahi was in Sydney. He pleased for the life of a white man sentenced to death for stealing a piece of pork.
You called us “barbaric” and “savages” and “cannibals” and thought yourselves superior. In the mid-1770s Europe was a mess. There was mass starvation, poverty .. Conflict and horrors. There was so little food peasants ate grass hay and wild roots, rotten chestnuts ... there were contagious diseases as lice and fleas proliferated. 40-50% child mortality rates in some areas,. General life expectancy was around 25 years, slightly lower than amongst the barbaric Māori ... public “justice included hanging, mass floggings, beheading, burning at the stake, quartering, eye gouging ... The men who overthrew Charles the First were cut to pieces while alive and watched as their body parts were thrown on a fire ... until they died of their injuries. Rebels had a small hole cut in their stomach and their intestines drawn out around a spit – while they were still alive and watching (drawing). You called US barbaric? Te Pahi was horrified at the death penalty for stealing a piece of pork – he would have been more horrified had he known the true extent of British “justice”.
You called us “warlike” and living in a state of constant war – but that is also a perfect description of Europe at the time.
How were you superior to us ? Your technology might have been, but as people ?
Recently a young boy caught tagging in Auckland was stabbed and died by the homeowner – is that the sign of a civilized society? Killed for painting on a fence that was not his. Both Māori and Pākehā condemmed the boy’s actions – but did he deserve to die for it? Do we hate each other so much? Or, have we generated so much hate that this happened? Or do you really value possessions above life?
What is the most important thing in the world? It is People, People, People ...
"So if you meet me, have some sympathy, have some courtesy, have some taste ..."
Anarchic Wild Child
So, around 1860 some of us were getting angry enough to fight back. There had been minor since 1840, after the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi, which the white settlers never honoured. The early fighting was an attempt by Māori to make the white settlers live up to the agreement they had signed.
By 1860 there was pressure from white settlers for more land. But we were refusing to sell. We did not want New Zealand land to have foreign owners. (I hear echoes of that in today’s debate about foreign ownership ... your arguments are not new to us ...)
Wars broke out. There was fault on both sides, but you were trying to take our land and we refused. Some of us were angry enough to defend our lands with guns. Some of us fought against you, some of us fought on your side and some were neutral. We all suffered. The settler Government passed laws to confiscate land from rebels. But they were not interested in punishing rebels.)They were interested in gaining land. When Tuhoe rebelled it was land of Ngati Awa and Whakatohea that was confiscated. The settlers didn’t want Tuhoe land (Te Urewera) they wanted the fertile farm land on the plains – the land of Ngati Awa and Whakatohea.
The fertile farm lands of the Waikato, Māori farms that fed early Auckland, were a prime target and war was provoked, so the land could be conquered and taken. We were growing wheat on our lands, milling it in our mills, shipping it on our river barges to Auckland and selling it there, or shipping it to Australia on our ships to sell there. The settlers took this away from Tainui – and in similar ways from other iwi.
In 1881 settler soldiers invaded Parihaka, the centre of our passive resistance movement, mowing down the children we sent out to greet them, swing swords and pistols from horseback and bombarding the town. There was no resistance, but people were shot and the survivors arrested and imprisoned or fled into the bush.
At Rangiawhiao, in the Waikato, the men were away fighting. Settler forces snuck passed our men and attacked the defenceless town. Old men, women and children sought shelter in the church. IT was set on fire by the soldiers and the women, children and old men shot down if they tried to escape the burning building.
On several occasions the settler soldiers bombarded and attack our pa on Sundays. You had taught us this was the day of rest, to honour the God we accepted. We honoured that and were holding prayers and singing, when the Christian soldiers attacked – in defiance of their own day of rest. What was that about?
We fought each other to a standstill. But the result was that we lost our land – our economic base. We were reduced to second class citizens in our own country. Not just the groups who fought the settlers – we all suffered. We basically lost everything. We are still suffering the effects.
Many of your relation remaining in Europe lost everything ... and retain the memory and anger today ... Northern Ireland, Former Yugoslavia, and more recently Palestine and the Israelis. You tell us to forget the grievances of the past – but your relations remaining in Europe do not forget their past or their grievances. How many of you came here as a result of the Highland land clearances? Of the Irish potato famines and “the Troubles”? How many transported from the English courts? You may have forgotten your past because you don’t live surrounded by it. We do ....
I want to see Māori and Pākehā walking together into the future. I want to see Waiherehere more than just a symbolic name on a wharenui. I have lived in both Māori and Pākehā worlds. To me, Te Ao Māori is much saner – it’s a better way to live (and I don’t mean in the old ways, but based on our values – on tikanga and kawa). A country built on our values would be a better place for EVERYONE to live in. What is the most important thing in the world? It is People, People, People.
When Mike Smith tried to cut down the pine on Maungakiekie (One Tree Hill) I wanted to say to him “Don’t attack the tree – blow up the Monument.” The statute and needle was erected to commemorate a dying race – the settlers expected Māori to die out. But we are still here. And if the population changes the way it is predicted to, by the year 2050 the majority population of this country will be Polynesian – both Māori and Pacific Islanders. There will be traces of European blood (just as the settlers believed there would be traces of Māori blood) but white New Zealand will be in a minority. Some of you will be alive then. What will our country be like?
If you continue to treat us the way you do, I fear for our future. There will be very angry people, and maybe even a Robert Mugabe. We have resorted to guns in the past. I would not like to see that happen again.
I love this country – my country, our country. I know its histories, its people, its landscapes. I hope we can do better and produce a Nelson Mandela instead of a Robert Mugabe ...
"So if you meet me, have some sympathy, have some courtesy, have some taste ..."
Anarchic Wild Child
Tēna rā outou. To those of you who took the time to read all that, āku mihi aroha kia koutou (I greet you warmly).
I will try to respond to questions, and there will probably be many ...
"So if you meet me, have some sympathy, have some courtesy, have some taste ..."
Anarchic Wild Child
That one's easy - population pressures. Small islands - growing population - better life - much the same reason that all people have come here - lookign for a better life.
In the case of Aotea waka ? Turi was having a running fight with the high chief Uenuku. One day Turi and has people were forced to send baskets of food to Uenuku as a tribute. Turi killed Uenuku's favourite young son, cooked him and put the meat in the tribute baskets. Uenuku ate the food - and when he foud out what he had eaten he was "seriously pissed ..."
I would have jumped on the waka and sailed over the horison too ..
"So if you meet me, have some sympathy, have some courtesy, have some taste ..."
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