Safer journeys document - safer for motorcyclists - or not? Thoughts please

**Tricia1000** · 30th December 2010, 03:42

http://www.transport.govt.nz/saferjo...%20Actions.pdf

Interesting proposals towards making riders and drivers safer.
Page 5 is dedicated to motorcyclists.
What do you think of the changes - good and bad!

**Paul in NZ** · 30th December 2010, 06:22

Waste of time...

Licensing mopeds? eh? If they mean getting rid of the 'can be ridden on a car license' thing then that will just kill the sales (which is in itself mabe not so bad) but they would be better off introducing a basic wof std.

Compulsary rider training? Who for? Some rider training is OK i suppose but I've seen shit loads of riders who have done all the training getting into accidents because they seem to think its somr kind of armour plating or something? (for what its worth I dont blame the training as such). (no I'm not giving examples as some have been fatalities or serious injury). I'm not convinced training is all the answer (other than the answer to un employment for the trainers)

Power to weight? Will result in many sales of HD 883 sportsters... All of which will get 1200 kits plus....

I dunno - didnt see much there to excite me...

**Pixie** · 30th December 2010, 06:35

When I see them addressing road construction issues, such as cheap low temperature emulsion bitumen that lasts 4 weeks before it flushes to a polished finish and killer barriers,I will believe it is more than just lip service.

I contacted NZTA design office and the drone there told me Safer Journeys will have absolutely no effect on their choice of barrier design,despite it containing sections on unsafe roadside furniture.
He was quite pleased about it.

**Maha** · 30th December 2010, 07:01

If rider training was directed at new riders or indeed become part of the licencing for learners , then surely that must be a positive yes?

**Paul in NZ** · 30th December 2010, 07:42

Originally Posted by Maha

If rider training was directed at new riders or indeed become part of the licencing for learners , then surely that must be a positive yes?

A trip through the crash ward or morgue would be better

**Maha** · 30th December 2010, 07:48

Originally Posted by Paul in NZ

A trip through the crash ward or morgue would be better

I have run a similar scenario passed my peers on another forum to no avail. Seems that most involved with motorcycles would rather not look straight in the face of the possible outcome of riding above one limits.

**James Deuce** · 30th December 2010, 07:56

Originally Posted by Maha

I have run a similar scenario passed my peers on another forum to no avail. Seems that most involved with motorcycles would rather not look straight in the face of the possible outcome of riding above one limits.

Or riding at all.

**Maha** · 30th December 2010, 09:08

Originally Posted by James Deuce

Or riding at all.

In some cases yes....
'A good rider has nothing to prove, a dead rider has even less''.
Mick Doohan advocates that ''The road is no place to race''.
Basically saying the same thing. The sooner that some riders wake up to that fact, the better.
The better for them , the better for anyone around them.

**James Deuce** · 30th December 2010, 09:46

Originally Posted by Maha

In some cases yes....
'A good rider has nothing to prove, a dead rider has even less''.
Mick Doohan advocates that ''The road is no place to race''.
Basically saying the same thing. The sooner that some riders wake up to that fact, the better.
The better for them , the better for anyone around them.

No you're missing the point. Prior to getting a 6L a visit to Burwood and ride in a rural ambulance during the first 2 weekends of December should give a person an idea if they're up for the consequences when it does go wrong.

You get hurt when things hit you. Many people still think it won't happen to them and anyone under 25 is absolutely 100% sure that it isn't going to happen to them.

The only place I've had high speed accidents is on the race track. Never got hurt apart from the bruising that goes with skipping across the surface of the tarmac.

Despite having road accidents at or under 100km/hr I've broken my neck and back in 4 places, my head, ruptured an ear drum, broken a wrist, broken 10 ribs, damaged my liver and a kidney and ruined an ankle. You cannot sit back revelling in the premise that, "I'm a good boy so I'll be all right".

You don the gear, you ride the bike, you get hurt when it goes wrong.

Understanding that is part of the joy of riding a bike.

**pritch** · 30th December 2010, 11:01

Originally Posted by Paul in NZ

Power to weight? Will result in many sales of HD 883 sportsters... All of which will get 1200 kits plus....

I think there is a proposed upper capacity limit less than 883?

Changing the cc limit to a power to weight formula doesn't strike me as achieving a whole lot. They are only copying what happens in (parts of?) Australia. Mind you it could have been worse, they might have gone with the Euro 125cc, 15bhp thing.

If moped riders are writing themselves off in droves I haven't read about it, but learning something about riding on two wheels might not be a bad thing for prospective buyers. Always assuming there would actually be some useful information in the study material, by no means a given.

I was interested to note that it is a definite proposal to introduce a power to weight rule for bikes but a power to weight rule for cars is only to be investigated.
Don't hold your breath waiting for the latter to be introduced. Although if that meant that people had to get their kids trained professionally instead of doing it themselves that would be a big plus.

**BMWST?** · 30th December 2010, 11:53

and the motor cycle training is the only proposal to mention how it is to be funded

**dino3310** · 30th December 2010, 12:15

Originally Posted by BMWST?

and the motor cycle training is the only proposal to mention how it is to be funded

quote'
The NZTA and ACC will develop
an education programme. This can
be funded from motorcycle levies.

once again another increase.

i

**Paul in NZ** · 30th December 2010, 14:14

Originally Posted by dino3310

quote'
The NZTA and ACC will develop
an education programme. This can
be funded from motorcycle levies.

once again another increase.

i

Shit! They will farm it out to the motorcycle hating AA - we are screwed...

**p.dath** · 30th December 2010, 14:37

Originally Posted by Paul in NZ

Licensing mopeds? eh? If they mean getting rid of the 'can be ridden on a car license' thing then that will just kill the sales (which is in itself mabe not so bad) but they would be better off introducing a basic wof std.

Yes, they are talking about bringing in a class 6M licence for those who want to ride Mopeds, but don't have a motorcycle licence.

There hasn't been much evidence (that I have seen) to suggest that a significant amount of Moped accidents have been caused through problems with the machine itself. Introducing a requirement for a WOF would add a lot of cost with little benefit.

Originally Posted by Paul in NZ

Compulsary rider training? Who for? Some rider training is OK i suppose but I've seen shit loads of riders who have done all the training getting into accidents because they seem to think its somr kind of armour plating or something? (for what its worth I dont blame the training as such). (no I'm not giving examples as some have been fatalities or serious injury). I'm not convinced training is all the answer (other than the answer to un employment for the trainers)

I guess I have the exact opposite view of you - that well trained road users are less likely to have accidents. The head of the serious crash unit unit who recently retired said that 98% of accidents he investigated were due to driver error. 98%. I think training is the best way to reduce the number of errors that people make. A lot of errors only happen because the driver/rider doesn't know better. And I guess that is the crux - you don't know what you don't know - which is why training is needed.

Will training prevent you from having an accident? No. Is it more likely to help prevent you from making a mistake? Yes.

Training is not all about machine control. If people doing training have the attitude they are bullet proof then the training has failed to teach a very important aspect - risk and self-preservation. But this is a fault of the training itself, and not an indication we should abandon training.

Originally Posted by Paul in NZ

Power to weight? Will result in many sales of HD 883 sportsters... All of which will get 1200 kits plus....

The proposal is a restriction of 150 kw/tonne and must be less than 660cc. Personally I proposed that the LTSA be given the power to administer a list of permissible bikes for learners, and use the above as a guideline for the LTSA. Legislation takes a long time to change and I fear new technology, like electric bikes, may render it less and less usefull.

**fossil** · 30th December 2010, 15:24

[QUOTE=Tricia1000;1129942989]http://www.transport.govt.nz/saferjo...%20Actions.pdf

Interesting proposals towards making riders and drivers safer.
Page 5 is dedicated to motorcyclists.
What do you think of the changes - good and bad![/QUO

There needs to be an improvement in the testing (or lack of) of rider skills required to get a license. Its about time something was done about being able to ride on the road without any practical test (moped). Get rid of the "killer" 70kmh rule, you are either capable of riding on the road or not. The test requirements should reflect the skills required to ride on the open road. Bring in 5 yearly license testing?