Stabbed policeman left to die

[freedom-wedge]

Bet your sorry for all the dead coppers over the years to eh,no doubt there families will appreciate that,wake the fuck up or at least burst whatever comforting little bubble that surrounds you.2 unarmed coppers are little more use than one,one anti scumbucket device evens the odds a little at least.

You wake the fuck up man, I have shot on range with the police for 12 or more years they just wern't up to the task, it wasnt their fault, just not enough rounds to fire due to budget constraints, a few were above average Ironically Abbot was one, I fucking dispare every time an officer goes down just like I weep everytime the bell tolls for a member of our armed forces, I,m not a tree huging bubble wrapped enviro either, If they were going to have an armed experienced officer on patrol with a community constable I might relax, and he by god need,s to be on the range with 500 or more rounds a week, not gonna happen is it. he also needs to know that theres a time and a place to engage he dosnt even need to flex if theres no need. What you will get is the shaking hands of a 20 year old with the offender at his or her safest in the target area, due to budget constraints, leathal force is a fuck that fucks up lives including the police when they take one or get it wrong, when it needs to be done it should be so, but as a last resort and it needs to be most of all the right call.

[freedom-wedge]

No the connection is not lost on me, i actually think that what is portrayed on the telly has to answer for some of the problems but we are not talking cause here we are talking about the police's ability to defend themselves.

but if you really what to talk cause you have to look no further than the so called parents.

A valid point and certainly part of the problem thats going to get worse in the next 10 . Children who dont understand consequence, and then learn that no matter what there is little father or mother can do to STOP MEEE even if they wanted to, all I have to do is to pick up the phone and spin some shit, its game over for them, and now I is very empowered and can dance to my own music any time I wants.

[mashman]

agree with that apart from the hit the target bit, they are just as unlikely to hit the target.

Point taken, but both sides would have a better chance of survival with someone who's trained and knows their weapon I woulda thought, and you wouldn't just send anyone out there... there must be a lot of good shots amongst the ranks.

I would, however, prefer something completely different.

[Patrick]

Yeah your right....And one 14yr old and 18yr old pair of Maori boys fckd him up pretty good aye ! ! !

Good job that policeman getting delt to, I've had my fair amount of hidings in police custody and false charges.

Sounds like paybacks are a bitch !

Crazy Steve.

When did he give you the bash? He wouldn't be able to fight his way out of a tissue.

No ! !

You might be next Scummy, keep your guard up dude and get them before they get you...

There does seem to be more and more of this happening, could it be the fact that the standard Police officer weighs no more than 70kgs ? ?

Anyone remember the case in Botnay when a female officer was beaten by a teenager in a towel after he ran away from his shower..She was beaten quite badly !


Crazy Steve.

Her too? Did you enjoy the bash from a chick?

It's real alright ! I've been drinking bourbon all night and about to go out into town and use it !

Can't decide if I'm going for a shooting spree at the local school or police station ??

Which one would you chose Sir ?

Crazy Steve.

Take two in the head first, give it a test... then go crazy...?

[scumdog]

That's kinda the point .

They're already paid for by the public to serve the country.
They're trained to shoot and kill, and will most likely hit the target (unlike the Police J/K, to a degree).
They may have access to night vision (amongst other toys) etc... that Police don't.
They were brought in during the Molenaar thing, so have experience.
They're sitting around in barracks when they could be doing "other" things.

and likely many more reasons why they could be of benefit...

Just a thought

(a) True
(b) Possibly true
(c) Not true
(d) Spurious argument..
(e) Possible. But I bet they wouldn't be happy to hear that comment.

[freedom-wedge]

Point taken, but both sides would have a better chance of survival with someone who's trained and knows their weapon I woulda thought, and you wouldn't just send anyone out there... there must be a lot of good shots amongst the ranks.

I would, however, prefer something completely different.

The Military should'nt be engaging with its own citizens Mash, although its shapping up to do so in the future, there are some members of the police capable of doing this job and it is their area and it should stay there.

[Smifffy]

I love watching the wheel turn, you sound for all the world like a Thatcherite tory here.

That's kinda the point .

They're already paid for by the public to serve the country.
They're trained to shoot and kill, and will most likely hit the target (unlike the Police J/K, to a degree).
They may have access to night vision (amongst other toys) etc... that Police don't.
They were brought in during the Molenaar thing, so have experience.
They're sitting around in barracks when they could be doing "other" things.

and likely many more reasons why they could be of benefit...

Would that be enough of a deterrent, knowing that there's an automatic rifle pointed at you when you pull over? It'd certainly make me think twice before attacking a Police person...

I'd rather not arm the Police when there are already trained armed personnel in the country . Maximum cover for Police at next to no cost...

Just a thought

[BoristheBiter]

Point taken, but both sides would have a better chance of survival with someone who's trained and knows their weapon I woulda thought, and you wouldn't just send anyone out there... there must be a lot of good shots amongst the ranks.

I would, however, prefer something completely different.

Better training, not just rounds fired but better scenario based training.

The problem is at anytime for any reason someone can just lose it and go off his/her nut and it is generally the police the is standing in the way.
In the end it should come down to how the police want to handle this, whether it be more people in cars or carrying guns and if you don't like it vote someone else in at voting time.

[mashman]

The Military should'nt be engaging with its own citizens Mash, although its shapping up to do so in the future, there are some members of the police capable of doing this job and it is their area and it should stay there.

I agree, but what's the alternative? 2 "armed" forces?

I love watching the wheel turn, you sound for all the world like a Thatcherite tory here.

a Thatcherite eh... mum and dad will be proud (they are tories ). Is sounding like a Thatcherite a bad thing ?

Better training, not just rounds fired but better scenario based training.

The problem is at anytime for any reason someone can just lose it and go off his/her nut and it is generally the police the is standing in the way.
In the end it should come down to how the police want to handle this, whether it be more people in cars or carrying guns and if you don't like it vote someone else in at voting time.

@ voting, er, er , er, show me the party that offers REAL WORLD resolutions to ANY of todays issues and i'll tick that box...

imho, yes humble , and after reading the thread, a soldier would be MY perference. As you say, TPTB and the Police will do what they want for THEIR own reasons.

Governments consistently moan and whine about the lack of money to outfit and/or staff the Police properly... Soldiers already get paid and have all of the gear needed. You could implement "the soldier" idea in a week (or a year after all of the political wankery). How long will it take to train and arm the Police? (yes, i understand that there are some who are already trained)

What's more important? Lives? Cost? Political Wankery?

[Toaster]

Why not have an armed soldier ride along on the beats that need it? They're already trained in weapons?

As per the Crimes Act, only a constable can use deadly force. The Army have enough to do and their focus and training when it comes to actually firing a rifle, gun or otherwide has a completely different focus.

With the defence review, I doubt they will have anything spare to do their own work and training. Cutbacks ahead for the Services.

[mashman]

As per the Crimes Act, only a constable can use deadly force.

Acts/Laws can be ammended in a matter of days, just ask those hollywood chaps who held NZ over the financial barrel for the Hobbit movie . Sounds like it needs to be changed.

With the defence review, I doubt they will have anything spare to do their own work and training. Cutbacks ahead for the Services.

Very True... Guess it's to be left in the hands of TPTB as per

[jasonu]

That's kinda the point .

They're already paid for by the public to serve the country.
They're trained to shoot and kill, and will most likely hit the target (unlike the Police J/K, to a degree).
They may have access to night vision (amongst other toys) etc... that Police don't.
They were brought in during the Molenaar thing, so have experience.
They're sitting around in barracks when they could be doing "other" things.

and likely many more reasons why they could be of benefit...

Would that be enough of a deterrent, knowing that there's an automatic rifle pointed at you when you pull over? It'd certainly make me think twice before attacking a Police person...

I'd rather not arm the Police when there are already trained armed personnel in the country . Maximum cover for Police at next to no cost...

Just a thought

Millitary acting as cops is called Martial Law. Times for that in otherwise 'normal' societys have been in emergincies like New Orleans after Katrina, not enough cops to stop the looting and such, and the LA riots cause there weren't enough cops to stop the gigs from fucking up their own stuff. Give the cops pistols that they will carry in full view in a holster, train them how to use them properly, don't send them out on their own and that should be good enough to stop little peckerheads like these two from doing shit like this. Watch an episode of 'Cops' you will see armed cops in teams of 2 or more, with heaps of imediate back up, with in car video survailence dishing it out to arseholes. I like the way they will put the suspect in cuffs then interview them, safer for all.
I am unfamiliar with the Molenaar case. My guess is there was some sort of shoot out and the cop with the key to the gun cabinet was on break or in the bog so the military was called in as they were the only ones ready to fight guns with guns. Just a guess.

[mashman]

Millitary acting as cops is called Martial Law. Times for that in otherwise 'normal' societys have been in emergincies like New Orleans after Katrina, not enough cops to stop the looting and such, and the LA riots cause there weren't enough cops to stop the gigs from fucking up their own stuff. Give the cops pistols that they will carry in full view in a holster, train them how to use them properly, don't send them out on their own and that should be good enough to stop little peckerheads like these two from doing shit like this. Watch an episode of 'Cops' you will see armed cops in teams of 2 or more, with heaps of imediate back up, with in car video survailence dishing it out to arseholes. I like the way they will put the suspect in cuffs then interview them, safer for all.
I am unfamiliar with the Molenaar case. My guess is there was some sort of shoot out and the cop with the key to the gun cabinet was on break or in the bog so the military was called in as they were the only ones ready to fight guns with guns. Just a guess.

Martial Law is a bit of a dramatic comparison isn't it? you're from the US (j/k)

Arming and Training a Police Force, no disrespect intended to anyone, takes time and money that, NZ doesn't have. No time, because with the Police training all of the time, there'd be none on the streets. Unless you'd be happy with, here, have a gun, try not to shoot yourself, go catch bad guys. Crime doesn't stop for training.

IF there had been a Soldier covering the fallen officer at the time? you reckon this incindent woulda turned out any better? would it have happened at all? From behind, with a Machete? disgusting!

A Soldier Ride Along, instead of a camera man hopin to get some good Telly, Ride Along... heh, i reckon some Soldiers would happily volunteer for the duty. They could even skills share and cross-train . Rinse and repeat and eventually the Soldiers will faze out, or until there's a massive shift in thinking , and hopefully there will have been some useful skills shared too. We're always learning .

For NZ... The Soldier would be there to Guard the Police person. We could have them in cars pretty ?quickly? and for a fraction of the cost of arming and training the Police. Don't shoot unless the Police person orders it. Return Fire if either of you is in the poo. Anything that blurs the lines, figure it out quickly they may have a rocket launcher (movie drama )... A much better approach for NZ i woulda thought? Criminals would be quickly aware of this

?quickly? = why can't you just turn up to a barracks, get on a range, find the best marksmen of the day, offer them the gig and have them start a week on friday? You are the government after all. And it is pretty much FREE to do and those Police that need cover, get it now instead of when the legislation is ready .

(providing their are volunteers too, and that the public would be happy about it )

Martial Law he says...

Molenaar: cops smelled grass. Found a pissed off guy that opened fire. Killed a cop and a dog, wounded another 2 cops and a civilian. Killed himself when he realised he was screwed. Protecting some of his living.

[BoristheBiter]

Molenaar: cops smelled grass. Found a pissed off guy that opened fire. Killed a cop and a dog, wounded another 2 cops and a civilian. Killed himself when he realised he was screwed. Protecting some of his living.

Not to split hairs but that is two different incidents you have there.

[scumdog]

Not to split hairs but that is two different incidents you have there.

And here was I thinking it was yet another incident all together...