Child abuse at its worst in good ole NZ

[scumdog]

sterilisation would be a good start

Damn right!

Would save lives and tax-payers money down the track.

[JimO]

there must be 2 New Zealands, the one where i live i dont know anybody on a benefit, i own 2 houses one my 85 yo mother in law lives in rent free, i own 6 cars/4x4s, a 50k boat, a 20k caravan, 2 motorbikes, i come from a large family mum/dad and 6 kids, i had a poor education, left school in 1975 aged 15 and got a apprenticeship, my wife left school at 16 and worked in a warehouse, we were married at 20 and moved into our first house , started working for myself aged 26, never had a hand out from anyone, have 3 boys that have excelled at school, excelled at sport representing Otago in several sports, one boy representing NZ in Ireland, 2 of them going to uni next year. Obviously in the other NZ you blame the past 200 years for your failure, you beat your kids to death, you dont work your parents didnt work your children wont work, the state carrys you, what is the difference between my NZ and the other one...fucked if i know??

[Mom]

I was wondering if that was the case. It seems to me that means removing the only family they've ever had, which doesn't seem right. Who are they supposed to call on for support?

I suppose it's not the same thing as an adoption, though.

I guess there are also foster parents who aren't good at it either, and are better kept away from, but that's the same issue as with the natural parents; it shouldn't be done by default.

What's your view on that policy Mom?

Is there also a limit to the length of time they can stay with you?

Richard

At best children should not be removed from their family for any length of time. No matter what your Mommy is still your Mommy no matter what has happened. Nobody can replace her. Foster homes should only ever be a short term stay while things get sorted out at home, or other members of the family can step up and take over with support.

We never treated any kids that we fostered differently from our own. They got the same food, the same treats, the same everything. The money we got for looking after them all went on looking after them. There were some though that did not operate as we did and the kids were viewed as an income stream. Having said that they were in a better place than where they came from and were safe, the single most important thing to consider. I had to stop fostering, I got too frustrated with the lack of support for the kids, and the way the system worked. The needs of the children are paramount according to the mission statement of the then CYPS, in my experience that was not always the case. Oh sure it could be demonstrated that everything was being done with the kids best interests at heart, but being at the coal face caring for these kids it certainly did not appear that way to me. I can remember saying to one social worker, you cant arrange for their dad to take them to the airport, he is unreliable, he wont turn up, the kids are terrified he will let thm down, they dont want to go to him, they want us to take them...

They did not listen. The weekend before the kids were to leave he was to pick them up at a pre arranged place and have them for 3 days. We waited and waited and waited for him to turn up, he was a no show. Eventually I took them back home. We got a call from the social worker at 9:30pm saying he was there (20min drive for us) waiting for the kids. I told her tough luck they are in bed asleep and I am not waking them. It will have to be tomorrow now. They went septic, he went septic, but those kids got a decent uninterupted sleep.

[mattian]

A certificate of fitness should be applied for before people are allowed to have children. There should be an assesement of peoples circumstances before its granted.
Having children is a priviledge!! and not a right. We have people already living in poverty in ths country popping out kids like its going out of fashion and this is the kind of environment they grow up in.

[onearmedbandit]

At least we are 'best' in the world with SOMETHING...

Really? Since when?

[Ocean1]

Sadly we were not permitted to know anything about the kids once they left our care, but I got a couple of follow up calls from their social worker letting me know how they were getting along.

I struggle with the current foster homes ideals. I don't believe mommy is always the best mommy.

Two decades ago I asked someone senior in the NZFCF why they were leaving an organisation that was obviously their passion. She said that there were more parents wanting to adopt children in most countries in the western world than their were children available. She couldn't reconcile this with NZFCF policy, particularly as it was essentially defined by DSW.

On the basis of current available evidence I can't say I disagree with her.

[MSTRS:Me]

sterilisation would be a good start

And just for a start...

No matter what your Mommy is still your Mommy no matter what has happened. Nobody can replace her.

Can't agree with that. Just as so many fathers are best described as sperm donors, there's little difference in a mother who abuses and neglects her kid/s, especially one that produced those 3 little kids you took on.

Foster homes should only ever be a short term stay while things get sorted out at home, or other members of the family can step up and take over with support.

Perhaps you're right re fostering, it's not always ideal, but when it comes to the state's predilection for placing these kids with family (costs less, eh)...I can't help thinking "I know that it's not always the whole family that like that, but this is the family that produced the abuser, quite possibly by abusing them when they were a kid, and/or failed to teach/instill any parenting skills "

[Mudfart]

there must be 2 New Zealands, the one where i live i dont know anybody on a benefit, i own 2 houses one my 85 yo mother in law lives in rent free, i own 6 cars/4x4s, a 50k boat, a 20k caravan, 2 motorbikes, i come from a large family mum/dad and 6 kids, i had a poor education, left school in 1975 aged 15 and got a apprenticeship, my wife left school at 16 and worked in a warehouse, we were married at 20 and moved into our first house , started working for myself aged 26, never had a hand out from anyone, have 3 boys that have excelled at school, excelled at sport representing Otago in several sports, one boy representing NZ in Ireland, 2 of them going to uni next year. Obviously in the other NZ you blame the past 200 years for your failure, you beat your kids to death, you dont work your parents didnt work your children wont work, the state carrys you, what is the difference between my NZ and the other one...fucked if i know??

unfortunately many NZers see our govt assistance programme dubbed SOLO by the "solo mums" as a way to collect a decent pay every week. the more kids you have, the more money the govt gives you.
You can see these people on benefit days walking out of bottle shops, supermarkets, bakeries or into gambling establishments, oh at about opening time.
usually accompanied by either one case of beer under each arm, or the "breadwinners", the children in tow, usually poorly clothed and looking damn sick.
the police look away.

[Mudfart]

as for the latest case, with the two years of beatings etc on the 9 and 7 y.o.
GIVE US THEIR NAMES. let them into the streets.
surely a professional qualified doctor can tell broken bones in both hands have come from hitting something, it should have been immediately reported to police, and CYFS.
although CYFS have failed big time on these kids, as there is supposed to be some hardcore monitoring going on, which obviously there wasn't.

[rainman]

No need to sink to their level of barbarisim. Just a quiet dignified execution and disposal at sea.

I'm a bleeding heart leftie greenie and I admit my first thought was that the appropriate response to this is public beheading. But perhaps once I have settled down I'll agree your suggestion's pretty good too.

Followed by a very detailed enquiry up and down their family tree to weed out anyothers...

Not with you on that, though.

I struggle to imagine the agony that child has been through.
I can only hope that she can rebuild her trust in adults, and enjoy the rest of her life in the safety and love of decent guardians.

We can only hope. Tough road to travel.

See! The anti smacking bill "really is working"!

You're better than that. These people have been abusing this poor kid for way longer than S59 has been repealed. Stop being a stupid bigot and scoring cheap points from this.

there must be 2 New Zealands

There are. It's part of the problem.

[Woodman]

And yet, in a few years, once kids like these are old enough (physiologically) to have kids and start the next sorry generation, sympathy from many kiwibikers (and others, of course) will instantly cease, and their executions will be called for.

Even the mother that started this thread, horrific though her actions have been, deserves sympathy - she just has no clue about acceptable behaviour, and needs rehabilitation, not ridiculously harsh punishment. That would just reinforce in her mind that punishment is how you solve problems.

Richard

This is where the problem gets worse.
The hard decision needs to be made to stop any more abuse happening by disabling the abusers. We need to get rid of them by a bullet or a key. This may sound barbaric, and it is, but it is less barbaric than letting the abuse continue.

[James Deuce]

I think JimO should change his login name to Marie Antoinette. Brioche is overrated BTW.

[Paul in NZ]

We never treated any kids that we fostered differently from our own. .

You are a bloody saint and should be excused paying income tax for 10 years.. Seriously - well done, I wish I had half your ability in this regard..

I guess its the oddness of the human condition that for every arsehole there is an angel... Sadly the arseholes breed faster...

[tri boy]

Ive dropped the "blow torch n pliers" theory.
That is sinking to the thugs level.
JimO is correct. Sterilisation is the way to go, but I would add a life time of community service.
They say a good soceity is judged by how it looks after its desperate citizens, rather than the comfortable ones.

[oldrider]

I'm a bleeding heart leftie greenie.

You're better than that. These people have been abusing this poor kid for way longer than S59 has been repealed. Stop being a stupid bigot and scoring cheap points from this.

Your opening self description explains your knee jerk reaction to my post!

The money, energy and time wasted* on that unnecessary bill could have been used to police and weed out these true abuse cases and rectify them!

All that was/is missing was/is the will to use the law and do something about it but that has been done to death!

*The money IMHO was wasted because the laws of the day were sufficient to handle cases of assault and abuse such as this one!

It's like the Labour (lefty) alliances stupid dangerous dog law, nothing has changed dangerous dogs abound and every now and then some one gets bitten or mauled!

Apart from all that, compliments of the season.