Is the age of irresponsibility now completely upon us?

[DarkLord]

I was reading in that other thread about the horrendous child abuse dished out to some poor girl in Auckland, and it got me thinking....

What has become of our society when things like this are becoming more and more commonplace - and more importantly, what caused this and how can we change it?

My honest belief is that we are automatically conditioned in our society to pass the blame for our own actions onto other people and try to defend ourselves no matter what - even when we have no leg to stand on whatsoever. Take this poor abused child for instance. Let me guess - the parents will probably invent some excuse for it such as "she was crying too loud" or "she wouldn't eat her dinner" or something ridiculous like that.

The tragedy of this issue is that there is every chance that similar abuse has happened to the parents themselves when they were children, and due to an increasingly soft-cock society that is becoming far too lenient on such matters, the parents are given excuses and let off lightly when they should be judged harshly and forced to undergo therapy to help them get over the issues that "caused" them to treat someone like this in the first place.

Even if someone has been abused it does not give them any right to abuse others. They may be full of anger and frustration, but they will never ever resolve it through attacking another person - it will only increase the cycle and make things worse for both parties. Some people are seemingly given the freedom to act like complete arseholes towards others "because they have had a hard life" or something like that. We've all had to face shit in our lives - some more than others - but it is up to us what we choose to do with it. We can learn to heal and use it to grow stronger within ourselves or we can use it as a weapon to destroy others, armed with an excuse of "the bad things that have happened to us".

I guess what I am trying to say is that we are all responsible for our actions and the more that individuals are not held accountable for what they do and are given permission to pass the blame onto someone or something else, the worse things are going to get in our society unless there is a radical turn around.

Keen to hear your thoughts.

[candor]

If reading it turns your stomach how is living it.

Fundamentally it's about WINZ and generational welfare enabling miscreants to be miscreants. As a mental heralth nurse I can guesstimate that these sadists are sociopaths ie missing a few vitals like empathy and awareness of others rights.

But in a society with less welfarism where work fitness is a requisite for the kind of income enabling family building, there is a natural barrier to these types breeding and screwing it up. Where non weight carriers do breed they must depend more on charity as in the old days - that charity will not be so forthcoming as whistle blowing against the undeserving of it. Communities set the standards when charged directly.

In my Nanas day losers that'd create a violence riddled home had far less chance of getting past the starter line as engagements were up to 10 years, during which the bloke was suppose to save for a house. The wider family had more time to run character checks by getting to know hopeful breeders. Dubious types stayed single.

One outcome of the days of institutionalisation was that people with bad mental illnesses met and got it on, producing even worse sorts of presentations of mental illness in the offspring. At least if one parnt is mostly sane there is dilution of any dodgy genes.

[Woodman]

Its time to tell the huggy wuggy, not their faulty waulty out of touch do gooders to fuck off, so these abusive brain dead fuckheads can be got rid of. maybe the abusers were abused as kids, well who gives a shit, and is it really an excuse to continue the abuse? possibly for generations because great grandad got beaten up by great great grandad.

The do gooders are making the situation worse with their idealist social academic theories.
Dickheads

[James Deuce]

Socrates, is that you?

[maggot]

Dunno why you're bitching here, it ain't our fault..

[firefighter]

Um, not to sound like a broken record, but 7.62 calibre rounds would really solve a lot of problems......

There is absolutely no gain to society keeping these mongrels alive, yet i'd be surprised if they even stay in prison for 8 years, which will cost 60k each per year at that also, then the real cost to society will be discovered when they are released and re-offend (lets not kid ourselves here), then new cost of the new crimes monetary wise from the police, courts, lawyers, then new prison time, the cost to the victims both emotionally and in monetary terms. It never stops, $2 per round ends it all and stops the future problems they will ultimately be responsible for. Also it's what I would consider an appropriate punishment for the crime committed, they have destroyed that poor little girls life many times over.

It won't ever stop crime altogether at all, but it will stop these two re-offending, no question, and is certainly more of a deterrent than what we have at the moment. Currently the justice system is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a better result, which is madness. In fact it's getting worse, and punishments are getting less, criminals get more rights, and more focus on 'rehabilitation' which quite frankly has been time-tested and does not work and is kept here for the sake of keeping jobs for psychs etc open.
The only form of rehabilitation comes in the form of a bullet, and the sound no-question promise of knowing one is coming your way.

I don't believe anybody has any excuse or reason for fucking with someone elses life, and given the chance to be 'rehabilitated' quite simply is un-justified, your victim does'nt get that chance. You take a life, you lose yours. There's no second chance for the victim, that is always forgotten.

[SMOKEU]

What is really, really phucked about about NZ is the fact that if you commit a minor driving/riding offence, such as sustained loss of traction, you get your vehicle impounded, licence disqualification, big fine and a criminal conviction, and the judges are as keen as a trigger happy terrorist to convict people for such offences.

However, if one were to get drunk and carry out a vicious, unprovoked assault on someone, the judges are reluctant to convict people in comparison to a driving offence, once the free court appointed lawyer makes some bullshit excuse about how mummy was a crack whore and daddy was a patched gang member.

[mashman]

It ain't the fault of the doo gooders, they just come up with the idea. It's the fault of those who do the listening, and then react by implementing laws which really are of no real consequence. Lawyers get rich and the govt look like they're tackling an issue , where in reality the "violence" still goes on, law change or not!

Unfortunately we heal, educate, police, inter, maintain etc... to a budget and will never be able to address the "issues" of society in a manner that may be effective, solely on the basis that it costs too much

[Edbear]

It ain't the fault of the doo gooders, they just come up with the idea. It's the fault of those who do the listening, and then react by implementing laws which really are of no real consequence. Lawyers get rich and the govt look like they're tackling an issue , where in reality the "violence" still goes on, law change or not!

Unfortunately we heal, educate, police, inter, maintain etc... to a budget and will never be able to address the "issues" of society in a manner that may be effective, solely on the basis that it costs too much

I've had a life-long interest in human psychology and have studied various subjects to do with society and human interaction over the years.

Money per se has never really been the problem, but rather the eroding of traditional values. My wife works in Early Childhood Education and is a qualified teacher. The parents she sees on a daily basis have absolutely no clues when it comes to caring for their children. Starting back in the 60's the eroding of morals, respect for authority was accellerated by the likes of our Dear Dr. Spock. Over time, the rebellious teens became the inept parents and they now have children who are completely without morals, respect and guidance.

I watched a few minutes of a popular comedy show tonight called "Modern Parents" and this typified the attitude of what seems to be the majority of parents. They are scared stiff of upsetting their chldren by setting standards and enforcing rules. While not liking what their 15-year old daughter was doing, they couldn't stop her or set boundaries for fear she would be angry with them.

Today, the kids rule the house and the parents go along with them lest they get upset. There are no consequences and TV shows constantly portray the children as being smarter, more intelligent and wiser than their parents and the adults they interact with including teachers. If parents dare to set rules and moral standards they are viewed as "controlling, old-fashioned, repressive" The difference between right and wrong is very simple and has nothing to do with religion, race, culture, language, law or anything else. "Right" works, "wrong" doesn't work. If after 40 years we have reached this point in civilisation, (!), the answer is quite clear.

[puddytat]

As a self confessed "Do gooder" Im all for peoples rights. But in saying that Im all for people losing all thier rights when it comes to capital offences, pedophilia etc. Rights are something your born with but its also is up to the individual to maintain or deserve thier rights....You fuck it up, you get fucked up.

[JATZ]

Its time to tell the huggy wuggy, not their faulty waulty out of touch do gooders to fuck off, so these abusive brain dead fuckheads can be got rid of. maybe the abusers were abused as kids, well who gives a shit, and is it really an excuse to continue the abuse? possibly for generations because great grandad got beaten up by great great grandad.

The do gooders are making the situation worse with their idealist social academic theories.
Dickheads

Don't hold back there Woodman

AFAIK there is issues with cypfs in this case, but I still think they, the parents. still need to be executed

[scissorhands]

I think a lack of spirituality is a major problem.

Most spiritual people I know, whether I agree with their concept and god name whatever, are some of the nicest people I know.

Sure no ones perfect, but everyone I have known from Christians to Pagans to Hari Krishna's, have a belief in a weighted heart or light filled existence, which dictates how they respond in the world.

Without a spiritual life, we may be no better than beasts.

Even though I am a fan of Dick Dawkins, I have had too many spiritual interventions and experiences, to deny the invisible forces that shape out lives.

Globally, religion is being attacked by world government as they want the donation bowl money. China is a prime example, where those who practise spirituality are condemned, tortured and murdered. In India government officials are touring the villages trying to educate the masses against spirituality.

But then you have Africa which is very spiritual, superstitious with much black magic, and look how corrupt Africa is. Polynesia's history has been very spiritual but constantly at war and eating each other....I just dont know.

[SMOKEU]

I think a lack of spirituality is a major problem.

Most spiritual people I know, whether I agree with their concept and god name whatever, are some of the nicest people I know.

Sure no ones perfect, but everyone I have known from Christians to Pagans to Hari Krishna's, have a belief in a weighted heart or light filled existence, which dictates how they respond in the world.

Without a spiritual life, we may be no better than beasts.

Even though I am a fan of Dick Dawkins, I have had too many spiritual interventions and experiences, to deny the invisible forces that shape out lives.

Globally, religion is being attacked by world government as they want the donation bowl money. China is a prime example, where those who practise spirituality are condemned, tortured and murdered. In India government officials are touring the villages trying to educate the masses against spirituality.

But then you have Africa which is very spiritual, superstitious with much black magic, and look how corrupt Africa is. Polynesia's history has been very spiritual but constantly at war and eating each other....I just dont know.

Too much of this 'spirituality' bullshit is the problem. I choose not to be gullible enough to believe in something which can not be scientifically proven. Have you ever seen your god without being under the influence of some pretty mean drugs? Take a look at Islam - that's a very violent religion which encourages violence against non believers. Have a look at the Jews in Gaza - more violence because some dude a few thousand years ago took too many drugs, went on a mean trip and saw some 'vision'.

[scissorhands]

Too much of this 'spirituality' bullshit is the problem. I choose not to be gullible enough to believe in something which can not be scientifically proven. Have you ever seen your god without being under the influence of some pretty mean drugs? Take a look at Islam - that's a very violent religion which encourages violence against non believers. Have a look at the Jews in Gaza - more violence because some dude a few thousand years ago took too many drugs, went on a mean trip and saw some 'vision'.

Haha yeah.

There are those who appear be be serving god, who arn't, and then there are those who don't appear to be serving god, who are.

Many war mongers use god as a shield for some moral approval, but that doesnt mean god is the weapon or approves

[scumdog]

Too much welfare state hand-out shit that enables people 'breed-and-walk away" (to sound like a well known ad).

Welfare state + zero responsibility = the sorry-arsed un-motivated slack-jawed mouth-breathing improvident crap people we have now that are almost out-breeding the responsible ones