National opens ACC to private sector

[Oscar]

I was trying to get that point across mate but obviously I know Nuttin'

Yes, your points were similar, except his was well thought out and funny.

[Flip]

So to all those working and middle class men and women who thought they would be better off under a National goverment..................... You gullible fools, you voted them in, live with it. The Business Round Table and the Australian insurance companies thank you from the bottom of their leger sheets.

My only real question is what are you going to do about it at the next election?

In the mean time call your MP and tell them how you feel about it.

[Oscar]

So to all those working and middle class men and women who thought they would be better off under a National goverment..................... You gullible fools, you voted them in, live with it. The Business Round Table and the Australian insurance companies thank you from the bottom of their leger sheets.

My only real question is what are you going to do about it at the next election?

It is happening after the next election.
And it's ledger, by the way.

[Fatt Max]

Yes, your points were similar, except his was well thought out and funny.

Yes it was, totally agree my old china.

Maybe I am not funny anymore?
Maybe I never was funny?

Still, I'm a fat bastard so someone will always laugh at me I suppose.

As I see it my friend, we will never agree on this.

Your view point is, well, your view point

Mine is mine


I can only go on what I have seen all over the world with the effects of privatisation and what I am proud to call my experinece of how provatisation can hurt the service that the end user ends up with.

But hey, thats just me mate

I suppose 2011 will see how this will all go, being an erection year and all. Lets just hope that the decisions made at election time will be the best for what future we want for this great country.

Its been emotional....

[gatch]

The following text from the ACC media release is giving birth to hundreds of irony babies...

**Furthermore the Government was encouraged by the "huge improvement" in the ACC's finances and wanted to "keep maximum pressure on the Corporation to improve its performance rather than just passing additional costs onto levy payers".**

Levin, damn you.......

Wtf are you doing in LVN fatman ?

[Oscar]

Yes it was, totally agree my old china.

Maybe I am not funny anymore?
Maybe I never was funny?

Still, I'm a fat bastard so someone will always laugh at me I suppose.

As I see it my friend, we will never agree on this.

Your view point is, well, your view point

Mine is mine


I can only go on what I have seen all over the world with the effects of privatisation and what I am proud to call my experinece of how provatisation can hurt the service that the end user ends up with.

But hey, thats just me mate

I suppose 2011 will see how this will all go, being an erection year and all. Lets just hope that the decisions made at election time will be the best for what future we want for this great country.

Its been emotional....

So, still nuthin' then?

[Fatt Max]

So, still nuthin' then?

If you say so mate,

In Levin, the boys pay me to be who and what they want me to be

Give me dollar, me sucky sucky......

(Sounds like National talking to the USA)

[motor_mayhem]

Yep! They were in my last profession, too.

Bugger the nanny state liarbour

You say liarbour and yet your precious Nats bring out a hugely influencial policy at christmas when the public's attention is elsewhere, probably on their own xmas crisises. I also notice it toook stuff about 2 hours extra to publish that story vs nz herald and they never featured it as one of their main stories - though I may be reading too much into that.

ACC has been partially privatised before. I remember it well and fondly when I was self-employed in the 1990s. My "ACC levies" were considerably lower prior to a Labour gummint nationalising everything again.

Er - ACC has been privatised before and as I recall, nothing much changed from the point of view of the private citizen, and for business, rates reduced markedly.

Yeah your rates may have been lower but is that comparison taking into account inflation? Also I bet the quality of service was half of what you get now anyway.

The way insurance has to work in on the law of averages, the way averages get more accurate and less skewed by outlyers is through larger samples. Also lots of treatments the private sector can't actually afford the necessary equipment for.

[Oscar]

If you say so mate,

In Levin, the boys pay me to be who and what they want me to be

Give me dollar, me sucky sucky......

(Sounds like National talking to the USA)

I'm sorry for picking on your posts, as it is similar to a few others here, but how can you say summat like this:

I am against the governments plans for ACC, I am against the privatisation of ACC, I am against finance companies getting rich of the back off this action and the insurance council saying that it will improve workplace safety standards is a load of bollocks. I am a qualified OH&S auditor, inspector and creditor. I know workplace safety and I know just how robbing bastard insurance companies can dilute the quality of what is provided and paid out on.

...and not be prepared to back it up with some facts? It's obviously an area you feel passionate about and have some experience in.

There's been all sorts of slogans shouted on this thread, but very little actual discussion.

[Oscar]

You say liarbour and yet your precious Nats bring out a hugely influencial policy at christmas when the public's attention is elsewhere, probably on their own xmas crisises. I also notice it toook stuff about 2 hours extra to publish that story vs nz herald and they never featured it as one of their main stories - though I may be reading too much into that.

Yeah, the Govt. is sneaking the new policy through with an 11 month wait, after a general election. Sneaky bastards, no one's gonna notice that

Yeah your rates may have been lower but is that comparison taking into account inflation? Also I bet the quality of service was half of what you get now anyway.

The way insurance has to work in on the law of averages, the way averages get more accurate and less skewed by outlyers is through larger samples. Also lots of treatments the private sector can't actually afford the necessary equipment for.

You bet the service was half?
Insurance works on averages?
Averages get skewed by outlyers?

So far damn near everyone opposing this change on this thread has just made shit up to support their crackpot theory....

[Brian d marge]

I still don't understand. Both you and the other poster can't seem to actually come up with a reason why this won't work. It's been done before and went OK.

As for the Govt. lying - it was in their election manifesto.
They aren't doing it until after an election where the issue can be aired.

You rail against politicians, yet your "argument" is full of political slogans.

For example perhaps you can take a deep breath and tell us why the "robbing bastard insurance companies" are going to dilute workplace safety?

Ill bite

I live in a country , where we have accident insurance

no insurance, no cover ( unless u pay )

it has its good and bad points , good; no speeding tax , u crash and burn who cares , good ;, just had a cap put in one of my teeth , 40 bucks all up , and the hospital , the same ,,20 min wait , and a couple of buck for most things

BUT and believe me here the bottom dollar rules ........

having a baby??? try 100 000 yen and if its in the weekend , tack on a 20 or 30 000 on top of that

oh and want epidural ?? tack on another 70 000

So the insurance will cover most of that you have to find 25 % ( excluding epidural ) so you are looking at 30 000 plus epidural full cost 70 000 and any other costs that might be incurred ...

if you need drugs that are not on the "list " ie cheap ,,,tough
if you cannot afford insurance ( which you pay monthly about 30 to 49 000) tough
if you need a medical treatment not on the list tough

and as for work place safety . doesn't happen as its cheaper to pay insurance ,,,( or not , if the job is classed as part time , the company doesn't have to pay , so a lot of jobs fall into the contracting /part time category ...

My mate , who won the AMA No1 plate for Vintage class , had an accident , lapsed insurance ( American)
LOST EVERYTHING , the helicopter ride was ( off top of head 20 000 US dollars )


The short sightedness of " oh my payments went down " is the very reason ( along with apathy ) that NZ is no longer what it was ,,,ya friggen ruined a great country

It ISN'T national , Labour , or the whachamacallmenow party , its the bond market and those outside influences that seek to make a profit

You want proof , look up the IMF web site , then NZ report and it quite clearly says

http://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/pn/2010/pn1064.htm

( this is the recent one , below is the previous year and the one I quoted from )

Snip
9. Over the long term, key budgetary risks are the growing healthcare costs and public pension outlays. These risks should be addressed before the demographic pressures intensify, by reforming health care and the public pension schemes.

from the 2009 report

http://www.imf.org/external/np/ms/2009/032309.htm

I added both to show that successive government according to those outside influences are and have been VERY PRUDENT

Those outside influences DO NOT GIVE A STUFF ABOUT YOU AND I OR THE POOR

and that style of economic management has led to the stresses that we read about all the time

( five families a Mexican case study , good book and clearly shows the link )

Im happy to provide a ton more evidence and have done so many times in the past ,,

next time , you get a speeding ticket for 4km over the limit ...ohh speed kills or complain at those on the dole when they should be working 3 jobs to make Ends meet like the rest of us .....
or complain about the electricity prices , waiting times,,,or the price of vegetables

these are all due to a financially responsible government(s)

Stephen

oh by the way the solutions easy , don't use debt , buy NZ sourced and made , cut out the middle man ( pack and save ) and add value to anything you make or do

Unless there are any better ideas??

[Flip]

This has a lot to do with the fat cats on the BRT wanting to get their fat greedy hands on the ten billion dollars worth of ACC assets and SFA to do with workplace safety.

The people of NZ are just being ass fucked and are being told its in their best interest. Sorry about the language but its how I feel.

[Fatt Max]

I'm sorry for picking on your posts, as it is similar to a few others here, but how can you say summat like this:



...and not be prepared to back it up with some facts? It's obviously an area you feel passionate about and have some experience in.

There's been all sorts of slogans shouted on this thread, but very little actual discussion.

Dont apologies mate, its all about debate.

You say I have nothing and I accept that, at 10.55pm I have nothing other than a desire to rant about what I see as the death of our ACC system throuh privatisation.

I am, as you rightly say, passionate about it and I have, as you say, experinece in it.

My passion is through my experinece of government run services that have drastically deteriaoted when they have been privatised. The UK for instance, has suffered terribly over the years with competing companies bidding for healthcare contracts.

The lowest bid is accepted, the service ends up being desacrated and the loser in all of this is the end user. The same happened there with rail, rubbish collections, even prisoner transfer (those of us who were in the UK when Chubb were awarded the prison transfer contract and lost 20 prisoners in their first week. L O fucking L)

So, to this amazing and great country. Ok, I am not an expert on the history of NZ politics but I am a paid up voter and I love this country to bits. The ACC system as prescribed by Woodhouse is world leading. However, this government has decided that it is skint (when we know it is cash rich, the figures are out there and I am sure, as a biker, you would have read them in teh various threads) and that it needs reform.

So, open it up to competition and all of a sudden we have Australian Insurance companies knocking on the door wanting a piece of it. Mr Key has made it well known that he wants stonger commercial ties across the ditch and what a better way to do it.

Now, as an OSH inspector, I will watch the demise of standards as companies realise that cheaper insurance levies driven by these companies will mean diluting safe work practices. Compliance, in all its forms, costs and it is a non recoverable overhead.

What do you do? Easy, you cut corners and eventually some poor bastard who has turned up to do a days work gets hurt.

A claim is made, all manner of excuses given not to pay out and who suffers? The fucking worker does. The insurance company still has its premiums but the worler loses out.

And we pick up the pieces

ACC is unique to New Zealand. This government wants to open it up for privatisation based on the notion that ACC is skint. That is incorrect although I do noy have the facts to hand so will understand you not taking heed of that statement.

However, take heed that the government is lying, the distruction of ACC can be seen as an attack on the fabric of NZ society and people, including me, are pissed off with it.

I would sooner the money is spent sorting out those that abuse the system, now that I would support.

In my lifetime I hope and pray that I can make enough noise so that my dear son can enjoy this country for what it is, earn his keep and enjoy it with his family rather than pay it into the coffers of those that dont give a shit.



Enter

[Oscar]

Ill bite

I live in a country , where we have accident insurance

no insurance, no cover ( unless u pay )

it has its good and bad points , good; no speeding tax , u crash and burn who cares , good ;, just had a cap put in one of my teeth , 40 bucks all up , and the hospital , the same ,,20 min wait , and a couple of buck for most things

BUT and believe me here the bottom dollar rules ........

having a baby??? try 100 000 yen and if its in the weekend , tack on a 20 or 30 000 on top of that

oh and want epidural ?? tack on another 70 000

So the insurance will cover most of that you have to find 25 % ( excluding epidural ) so you are looking at 30 000 plus epidural full cost 70 000 and any other costs that might be incurred ...

if you need drugs that are not on the "list " ie cheap ,,,tough
if you cannot afford insurance ( which you pay monthly about 30 to 49 000) tough
if you need a medical treatment not on the list tough

and as for work place safety . doesn't happen as its cheaper to pay insurance ,,,( or not , if the job is classed as part time , the company doesn't have to pay , so a lot of jobs fall into the contracting /part time category ...

My mate , who won the AMA No1 plate for Vintage class , had an accident , lapsed insurance ( American)
LOST EVERYTHING , the helicopter ride was ( off top of head 20 000 US dollars )


The short sightedness of " oh my payments went down " is the very reason ( along with apathy ) that NZ is no longer what it was ,,,ya friggen ruined a great country

It ISN'T national , Labour , or the whachamacallmenow party , its the bond market and those outside influences that seek to make a profit

You want proof , look up the IMF web site , then NZ report and it quite clearly says

http://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/pn/2010/pn1064.htm

( this is the recent one , below is the previous year and the one I quoted from )

Snip
9. Over the long term, key budgetary risks are the growing healthcare costs and public pension outlays. These risks should be addressed before the demographic pressures intensify, by reforming health care and the public pension schemes.

from the 2009 report

http://www.imf.org/external/np/ms/2009/032309.htm

I added both to show that successive government according to those outside influences are and have been VERY PRUDENT

Those outside influences DO NOT GIVE A STUFF ABOUT YOU AND I OR THE POOR

and that style of economic management has led to the stresses that we read about all the time

( five families a Mexican case study , good book and clearly shows the link )

Im happy to provide a ton more evidence and have done so many times in the past ,,

next time , you get a speeding ticket for 4km over the limit ...ohh speed kills or complain at those on the dole when they should be working 3 jobs to make Ends meet like the rest of us .....
or complain about the electricity prices , waiting times,,,or the price of vegetables

these are all due to a financially responsible government(s)

Stephen

oh by the way the solutions easy , don't use debt , buy NZ sourced and made , cut out the middle man ( pack and save ) and add value to anything you make or do

Unless there are any better ideas??

NZ had an optional privatised system (such as is being proposed now), a few years back. So based on the actual facts - how did this change workplace safety?

Oh, and what has having a baby to do with ACC?

[GOONR]

....
So, open it up to competition and all of a sudden we have Australian Insurance companies knocking on the door wanting a piece of it. Mr Key has made it well known that he wants stonger commercial ties across the ditch and what a better way to do it......

Not all of a sudden. Those Australian Insurance firms have been kicking on the door for this for a very very long time. The door final collapsed under the weight of the $$'s being pushed the governments way.