Stagered riding while with other bikes

[MSTRS:Me]

55.556m

Close.....also need to allow some more for the fact that the rider in front is already slowing before you can react & begin slowing too. That amount is subjective as each of us has slightly differing reaction times & brake efficiency etc. Still don't want to stagger on the open road, MikeL?

[TonyB]

Close.....

Close?
100km/h x 1,000m/km = 100,000m/h
1 hour x 60 secs/min x 60 mins/h= 3,600 seconds
100,000m/h / 3,600secs/h = 27.77777777777 m/sec
or
just divide speed in km/h x 3.6

27.77777 m/sec x 2 sec = 55.556m

[vifferman]

Riders should still stagger, even if spread out.

... but only if they don't intend to ride. If they're staggering, they obviously have impaired balance.

[Waylander]

I reckon the back can often be the worst place to be, due to what I call "the whiplash effect".

In any procession of vehicles, minor changes in speed at the front become major changes down the line. This is due to the compounding effect of everyone's reaction time.

Commonly observed in nose-to-tail heavy traffic, where those further down the line are frustrated by the "surging" speeds, with speeding up and slowing down happening without apparent reason.

Let's say everyone's travelling in convoy at 100kmh. The lead rider spots a potential hazard and throttles off, dropping to 90kmh. Rider Two throttles off, but due to his 1 second reaction time, he has lost his 2 second buffer, and has to reduce speed to 85 kmh to correct his following distance. The same happens to Rider Three, who has to slow to 80kmh, and so on down the line.

In a sudden stop situation, it is usually the guys at the back that get into trouble. If the sudden stop for the guy out front coincides with a catch-up spurt for the guys at the back, you've got a disaster on your hands.

It's the guys on the end of the whip who feel the crack.

That's why on proper group riding stagger formation the new riders are at front with the more experianced riders at the back.

That way not only are the slower riders up front and setting the pace but the experianced ones are less likely to have trouble with "the whiplash effect" as you put it.

[dangerous]

For those of who who are slow on the uptake, this means the ride leader rides on the right hand half of his lane, the next person on his/her left, the following person on right, then left again, then right again, ad infinitum. Spacing is the 2-second rule between people on your side, effectively putting the person on the opposite half only 1 second out, but if you stick to your half of the lane this shouldn't effect you.

Proper staggered formation riding only applys on the straight bits.

Turns and twistys dictate that you fall into single file to negotiate the turn, then form up again as you exit the turn.

Dito WT..... DM, I think that 1sec out even tho not in your direct line is too close 2sec and 4sec IMHO
Its easy to say "stick to your half of the lane this shouldn't effect you" but dosent always work like that.

A few years back when we used to follow to these rules but a lot closer (1sec- 2sec) a group of 10 (8 bikes) had a bad acco in the Hasst pass since then I tend not to follow so close and not in such big a groups.
The end result was 1 off in the air ambo, 2 off in the rd going ambo and 1 in the cop car (no room in ambo) and 2 others rubbing there very sore limbs (remaining 2 were out frount)

Thanks to a wanker drive of a "kiwi Experance" bus (17yrs and no licence but got of scott free cos daddy was a big lawer prick in Auckland) The bus came around on the wrong side of the rd on a bridge which ment ther was SFA room for the line of bikes (thank fuk in single file) there was only one way to go and that was straight into a shingled layby.... however some dident make it that far.

The pic's below are from that acco the 1st is a mate pointing out our skid marks (how much further to the left could we have gone gives you an idea were the oncomming bus was aye) the last pic is me seeing a mate of in the chopper, she hasent ridden since I never want to have to do or see that again........ what I'm saying is people please spread out 2sec's is bugger all when it turns turtel, ride safe and have fun

[sunhuntin]

the one big group ride ive been in on, staggered was the order of the day. the organisers let everyone know what was expected on the roads, ride staggered and stick to your position at all times [organised by local HOG and triumph owners members]
i rode on the back of a buell owned by a hog road captain. we maintained our position the whole way, but a number of riders at the back zipped past us to get at the front.

[MikeL]

Still don't want to stagger on the open road, MikeL?

I understand about the relationship between speed and distance. What I don't understand is why a rider would want to be so close behind another that staggering becomes important, unless it is a race. I would have thought that dropping back to a safer distance would have been preferable. Also each rider can then use whatever part of the road they want. If you are staggered to the left you have to deal with more potholes, gravel, camber etc.

[Jabez]

I can't understand why more cage drivers don't look through the windows of the car in front to watch the traffic as far ahead as they can. That's why I hate being behind trucks, 4WDs and vans- can't see far enough ahead.

I agree, I try look see as far as possible to ahead to avoid any potential emergancy.

[GNR]

Ive only been out for a few rides, by myself, but one time i caught up to this older guy on a harleyish type bike thing, and we rode staggerd, I remembered , its makes sense to, as people havent explained ^^^^

[What?]

What I don't understand is why a rider would want to be so close behind another that staggering becomes important.

Yup. The Wild One was just a movie - not a doco on how to ride a motorcycle.

[XP@]

I too learned the same lesson the hard way.
I was following a friend round the east cape.
He was riding badly (taking corners really slowly and a lazy racing line)
So I was catching up through the corners and trying to hang back af far as poss in the long bits.
Eventually he managed to clip a car and ended up stopping VERY quickly on our side of the road.
At this time i was just under a second behind.
I was delaying apexes and doing the right thing but positioning of the car, my friend and his bike left me few options.
The only real option being his legs, and I didn't know if i was going to be able to stop in time.
So just before i hit i let off the brakes, a tincy but of throttle and went over his knees.

He did comment how light the F650 was, even with a full set of camping gear. Then proceded to limp around for a couple of weeks. Apart from that he had a dislocated thumb and sore nutz.

Now I am paranoid about following too close. I know just how quickly things can go wrong, and how bloody fast someone can stop when they are not on their bike.

[placidfemme]

I too learned the same lesson the hard way.
I was following a friend round the east cape.
He was riding badly (taking corners really slowly and a lazy racing line)
So I was catching up through the corners and trying to hang back af far as poss in the long bits.
Eventually he managed to clip a car and ended up stopping VERY quickly on our side of the road.
At this time i was just under a second behind.
I was delaying apexes and doing the right thing but positioning of the car, my friend and his bike left me few options.
The only real option being his legs, and I didn't know if i was going to be able to stop in time.
So just before i hit i let off the brakes, a tincy but of throttle and went over his knees.

He did comment how light the F650 was, even with a full set of camping gear. Then proceded to limp around for a couple of weeks. Apart from that he had a dislocated thumb and sore nutz.

Now I am paranoid about following too close. I know just how quickly things can go wrong, and how bloody fast someone can stop when they are not on their bike.

That sounds scary... good to hear your friend is ok though

*wouldn't like to be run over by a F650... lol I wouldn't even be able to pick one up if it dropped... so it would proberly squash me*

[Grumpy]

What I don't understand is why a rider would want to be so close behind another that staggering becomes important.

A bad habit a lot of us motorcyclists have developed..... tailgating

Done a lot of group rides through the years and staggered has always been the order of the day. It also makes it a little easier for the bike in front to see you in his mirrors.

[RiderInBlack]

Have alway tried to ride in a stagger pattern. Tend to go inline with more distance on fatser/tighter corners. Get frustated with riders undertaking in a group. Try it take the leftside when a faster ride is behind. Get frustated when a rider is holding the centre/right when it is obvious that a quicker rider is trying to pass.

[placidfemme]

Have alway tried to ride in a stagger pattern. Tend to go inline with more distance on fatser/tighter corners. Get frustated with riders undertaking in a group. Try it take the leftside when a faster ride is behind. Get frustated when a rider is holding the centre/right when it is obvious that a quicker rider is trying to pass.

Proberly a dumb question but... what do you mean by undertaking? Overtaking from the left?