Is John a spineless pussy or what?

[MisterD]

I was having a beer with a (moderately) senior police officer just before Xmas, and he said the repeal of section 51 was brilliant because it gave him and his colleagues another tool to deal with potential problems rather than getting frustrated with the reasonable force defence, knowing that it was only a matter of time before they had a seriously damaged child on their hands.

Neatly encapsulating a lot of what's wrong with our police force and judiciary.

If we actually want to cut child abuse then we need to stop incentivising people to pop them out as a ticket to life-long state support.

I'll repeat what I said over and over again when this debate was at its height. Children need three things: Love, boundaries and consequences for crossing those boundaries. Sue Bradford et al need to worry about why too many kids don't get items 1&2 and quit worrying about how people apply item 3.

[Smifffy]

I was having a beer with a (moderately) senior police officer just before Xmas, and he said the repeal of section 51 was brilliant because it gave him and his colleagues another tool to deal with potential problems rather than getting frustrated with the reasonable force defence, knowing that it was only a matter of time before they had a seriously damaged child on their hands. He also said that there wasn't a cop on the beat that would prosecute good parents for a gentle smack.

Just piss talk was all that was

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/the-smacki...ectid=10489370

They would prosecute again in a heartbeat, if only to "test" what the judiciary will allow.

Interesting that the nark in the linked trial was an "off-duty police officer"

Or perhaps it's another case of propaganda and weasel words, so that indeed there literally isn't "a cop on the beat that would prosecute good parents for a gentle smack"

Perhaps it's more likely to be a non-beat cop, perhaps the cops believe that there is no such thing as a good parent, just as there is no such thing as a good motorcyclist.

On the other hand if a gentle smack is anything like the cops dish out to the mentally ill in this country, the kids would be dead.

I'd love to see a news report, where a member of the public has approached a police officer and complained of someone giving a kid a gentle smack, whereby the officer responds "I saw what happened as well, and it was acceptable correction."

The do-gooder would run off to the media, and the "evidence would be reviewed" as it was in the mason case, and a prosecution would follow.

Meanwhile, kids that could have done with a good smack instead of being ignored or getting frequent beatings are roaming the streets with machetes, stealing cars and trying to kill cops.

[shrub]

Idiots? Pretty much everything that comes out of Keith Locke or Catherine Delahunty's mouths...Russel tries so hard to appear sensible and rational but then you read something like his science understanding-free blog post on cellphone towers and despair.

That's just the stuff that they'll say in the open, never mind the times when their real thoughts about culling the dairy herd, limiting peoples ability to have children or having half the seats in parliament controlled by 15% of the population sneak out.



Sue Bradford wanted to push her social engineering agenda past the front door of peoples homes...it was obvious to anyone with half a brain that it would have no effect on actual child abuse and that's exactly what we've seen come to pass.

That's why people see them as control freaks because they push laws that impinge up on the freedoms of normal law-abiding people and have no effect on the people that ignore current legislation. Exactly the same as microchipping dogs and the current campaign to lower the BAC limit to 0.05.

It's a shame really, because this country could use a proper, rational, actual Green party that would work with any government to be a moderating influence (as they do in the home of MMP, Germany).

Pretty much everything? Can you put forward specifics? Or is it just that you don’t like them or what they stand for? And what has Russel Norman said about cellphone towers you don’t like? If you're going to call the Greens idiots, try and have some specific instances of idiotic behaviour to support your claim - you're not down at the pub with your mates who agree with everything you say.

I think you’ll find that the Greens are pretty honest and open, and what they say is what they mean – a little unusual in politics, so I can understand you not believing it. As for culling the dairy herd – I haven’t heard that, but it would be a bloody good idea. Our dependence on dairy is making us very, very vulnerable and is going to cause major environmental problems that will make dairy unsustainable at even a fraction of the current levels while impacting negatively on other forms of agriculture and tourism.

And how are half the seats in parliament controlled by 15% of the population?

I’m not going to waste my time over the repeal of section 51. It has been debated more than any other piece of legislation ever, so there is no point. Maybe we should just cancel all laws because the people who break laws never pay much attention to them? Save a lot of money on prisons.

[shrub]

Just piss talk was all that was

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/the-smacki...ectid=10489370
Meanwhile, kids that could have done with a good smack instead of being ignored or getting frequent beatings are roaming the streets with machetes, stealing cars and trying to kill cops.

I know the guy who "flicked" his son's ear personally. He's an idiot and a real flake on a good day. As for the kids running wild on the streets with machetes stealing cars etc, I think you will find they grew up in an environment where smacking was pretty much the default punishment. Statistically people convicted of violent crimes are overwhelmingly more likely to have been subject to physical punishment as children.

But hey, correlation isn't necessarily cause, and that's the last I will say on the subject. Sue Bradford is no longer in the Green party and the repeal of section 51 was a private members bill and not Green policy.

[Smifffy]

Pretty much everything? Can you put forward specifics? Or is it just that you don’t like them or what they stand for? And what has Russel Norman said about cellphone towers you don’t like? If you're going to call the Greens idiots, try and have some specific instances of idiotic behaviour to support your claim - you're not down at the pub with your mates who agree with everything you say.

I think you’ll find that the Greens are pretty honest and open, and what they say is what they mean – a little unusual in politics, so I can understand you not believing it. As for culling the dairy herd – I haven’t heard that, but it would be a bloody good idea. Our dependence on dairy is making us very, very vulnerable and is going to cause major environmental problems that will make dairy unsustainable at even a fraction of the current levels while impacting negatively on other forms of agriculture and tourism.

And how are half the seats in parliament controlled by 15% of the population?

I’m not going to waste my time over the repeal of section 51. It has been debated more than any other piece of legislation ever, so there is no point. Maybe we should just cancel all laws because the people who break laws never pay much attention to them? Save a lot of money on prisons.

Interesting, I just hit up the Green's website, because I am genuinely looking for an alternative to the 2 main parties, since I feel both have let me down.

Their policy statements seem to full of words like "investigating" "redesign" "review" "developing solutions" "support" "require" "Introducing charges"

That last one is the only tangible action amongst it.

[MSTRS:Me]

Statistically people convicted of violent crimes are overwhelmingly more likely to have been subject to physical punishment as children.

The kind that any (caring) parent would have deemed 'child abuse', even in the old money.

[MisterD]

And what has Russel Norman said about cellphone towers you don’t like? If you're going to call the Greens idiots, try and have some specific instances of idiotic behaviour to support your claim

Clue: when words turn a pretty blue colour they're a link to somewhere else.

Russel seems to think that cellphone towers are a huge risk to everyones' health, despite the fact that the radiation levels due to them are way lower than TV & radion transmitters, the actual cellphone you're using, wifi, cordless phones....it appears he wouldn't know an inverse square relationship if it (lightly) smacked him in the mouth.

When Metiria was pulled up as a member of a FB group called "Maori 60" which believes that due to that whole "Treaty Partnership" bollocks maori should control 60 of the 120 seats in parliament, her reponse was typical politican-speak about Green party policy and "treaty principles" but failing to actually say she disagreed with 50/50 split.

[BMWST?]

STV is a system of voting for your local candidate/s in order of preference...not necessarily for a party. Think of it as MMP with the party vote removed...
It really does seem the only way to get a truly representative government, by ensuring that those who get in were actually voted for.
How many of us have voted for a candidate, yet the party they front for is the last one we'd want in power? Don't we want to see a return to MP's that will 'cross the floor' on issues being debated? I think we're becoming tired of the system that 'rewards' loyalty to a party, rather than the constituents. Who the fuck do these MPs actually represent? Hmmm?

well thats easy,you vote for the candidate you want locally but you vote for the party you actually want to run the country.MMP gives you exactly the proportion of that party..I cant see how STV is proportional party wise.I can see how it would work electing a coucil but not a whole parliament.I think to do that you would have to rank at least half of the seats in NZ.And a counting system so involved only a computer can do it???No suspect results there then!

[Ocean1]

No, of course you didn't read any further - why get all the info when you have enough to support your misconceptions.

My conceptions are all come by honestly, either 1st hand or from people who's expert opinion I trust. Unless your qualifications and experience match then I'll continue to get my info from places a tad more... grounded.

[MisterD]

MMP gives you exactly the proportion of that party..

I think party proportionality is overrated. What we need is 100% of MP's owing their place at the trough to their consituents and not the party, any system that has unaccountable list MP's is, IMO, bollocks.

I'd rather see an electorate-only system with open primaries so that even if a seat is safe for a given party, it isn't for the particular MP.

[MSTRS:Me]

well thats easy,you vote for the candidate you want locally but you vote for the party you actually want to run the country.MMP gives you exactly the proportion of that party..I cant see how STV is proportional party wise.I can see how it would work electing a coucil but not a whole parliament.I think to do that you would have to rank at least half of the seats in NZ.And a counting system so involved only a computer can do it???No suspect results there then!

Did I not say 'the party vote is removed'?
Why would I want a system to all intents the same as MMP, when I'd like to see MMP gone?
I want a system where there is no backdoor entry into parliament. If a candidate isn't voted for by name, then they're not there. But FPP is a little too rigid for me.

[shrub]

Clue: when words turn a pretty blue colour they're a link to somewhere else.

Russel seems to think that cellphone towers are a huge risk to everyones' health, despite the fact that the radiation levels due to them are way lower than TV & radion transmitters, the actual cellphone you're using, wifi, cordless phones....it appears he wouldn't know an inverse square relationship if it (lightly) smacked him in the mouth.

When Metiria was pulled up as a member of a FB group called "Maori 60" which believes that due to that whole "Treaty Partnership" bollocks maori should control 60 of the 120 seats in parliament, her reponse was typical politican-speak about Green party policy and "treaty principles" but failing to actually say she disagreed with 50/50 split.

Nope, no links that I could find on post #162 where you claimed the Greens were all idiots. I found your link to Norman's Blog here on a later post and I think if you read his blog and not the responses, you will find he's challenging the fact that Telcos have all the influence over placement of cellphone towers and suggests that there is international evidence that there are some health risks. just because someone disagrees doesn't mean he "had his arse handed to him" - hell, I've handed your arse to you several times in that case, and vise versa. Yes, people challenged him and he let their challenges stay - i challenged Rodney hide on his Blog and my post was removed within minutes even though I was courteous and polite. BTW I have met him several times, and I assure you he would know all about inverse square relationships.

And I am still waiting to find out where the Green Party want half the seats in parliament controlled by 15% of the population. Can you provide a link? Or would that not support your position?

BTW, I am still waiting for you to define what "far left" is and how you can apply that definition to the Greens, and I am very interested to know what makes you think almost everything Keith Locke and Catherine Delahunty says is idiotic. Is it too much to ask you to support your position? Does your argument actually have any basis, or is it simply your prejudice based on the repeal of Section 51?

[Brian d marge]

The moll did a lot of work with various SPCA's around the country, and from time to time they would get CW peeps along, particularly if they had a refurb underway or something.

It usually went like this:

• Dudes turn up - late
• Dudes have a smoke, and talk about what's for lunch
• smoko
• 1 dude puts on a boil up - needs a couple of other dudes to help peel & clean etc.
• Rest of the dudes txt their mates, ogle/harass the volunteers, complain to their supervisor about the lack of tools etc
• Argument then punch up
• Boil up is served, voluptuous or blonde volunteers invited to join
• Everyone helps with dishes and agrees it was a good feed
• Smoko
• Pack all the gear back in the van
• Leave - early

The next week half of them don't turn up cos they can't be arsed.


True story Bro.

Can vouch for this

Next time you go through little river near Christchurch , the railway station was painted by PD workers

Took 4 or 5 weekends

Stephen

There are ways around this though

[Brian d marge]

You, or your employer can provide work records if they want to, or if they have to (court order, IRD, something like that), but I doubt if they would hand over business records to a journalist making enquiries. It's probably not in M/Ls interests to volunteer this info, and there's no way the NZ government, or its agencies will be asking. And would a foreign company pay any attention to the NZ govt anyway?

If I was in say the labour party ..I would be digging real deep , That trade screwed NZ and if you had clear evidence that it was the current prime minister ,,,

those 80 dollar underpants or a cock-sucking weekend in Patia would be insignificant

I KNOW he did the trade I can feel it in me bones ,,,,,,,, Just have no evidence ,,,,

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

oh by the way this is called Party churn,( or sumink like that )

When the country is controlled through the cost of borrowing and advised from afar ,

People get sick of the austerity measures and vote the current government out , new one in , Same old shyte , as you would expect , 1 or 2 terms later , same deal .....

mean while bond rate through prudent fiscal management stays the same ( nz has been good at this ) , and everyone suffers , leaving a whole lot of have nots

Carry on ,,,

Vote for a parliament that has a social conscience , thats all you can hope for ,,, ( unless you actively seek change??? )

Stephen