Street Races... and modern hay bales

**TonyB** · 7th January 2011, 21:16

Yeah I know- kind of an odd thread, but you'll see what I'm on about.

Down here in the South Island, haybales are commonly used as crash protection by street race organisers. In the good old days they could easily get the old fashioned 'conventional' bale. A dry standard bale weighs about 20 to 25kg, so even if there's a stack of them when you go flying into them they'll move easily enough and slow you down fairly gently(ish).

Lately the supply of conventional bales is drying up. I doubt theres an agricultural contractor in NZ that still makes them. The most comon types of bale are now medium squares and large squares. A medium squre is equivalent to 10 to 12 conventional bales, a large square is equivalent to 12 to 15.

Because of this lack of supply, street race organisers have started using Medium or Large square bales. I've seen them at a couple of races lately. If you slide into a Medium or Large square bale, it's not gonna move much...if at all, because it weighs at least 10 times what the old conventional bales did.

A decent haybale is definitely NOT soft (I know this because I moved thousands of the bloody things in my youth). If you flew into an old conventional bale that was sitting against a wall, it would BLOODY HURT. The reason they worked is because they were small and light, so if you flew into a stack of them, you would only be effectively hitting one or two, and you would knock them out of the way, slowing down in the process. They were a lot softer than concrete and because they were small and held together by two bits of twine, they would bend or fly to bits. If you fly into a wall of Medium squares, you'll hit something that weighs about 250kg, so it wont move much and it definitely isn't going to bend or fly to bits.

Thats what I'm concerned about. I'm going to write a letter to MNZ pointing out this out and see if they can produce some guidelines. Anyone got any suggestions/ thoughts that are worth adding?

**Kickaha** · 7th January 2011, 21:41

Originally Posted by TonyB

Thats what I'm concerned about. I'm going to write a letter to MNZ pointing out this out and see if they can produce some guidelines. Anyone got any suggestions/ thoughts that are worth adding?

What if MNZ have a think about it and say you've raised a valid point so sorry guys we can see a safety issue with using these, so we will no longer issue a permit to any meeting using them as crash barriers, you will have just killed a lot of street racing in the South Island

**rwh** · 7th January 2011, 21:47

Originally Posted by TonyB

A decent haybale is definitely NOT soft (I know this because I moved thousands of the bloody things in my youth). If you flew into an old conventional bale that was sitting against a wall, it would BLOODY HURT. The reason they worked is because they were small and light, so if you flew into a stack of them, you would only be effectively hitting one or two, and you would knock them out of the way, slowing down in the process. They were a lot softer than concrete and because they were small and held together by two bits of twine, they would bend or fly to bits. If you fly into a wall of Medium squares, you'll hit something that weighs about 250kg, so it wont move much and it definitely isn't going to bend or fly to bits.

Umm, surely you don't really want the bale to disintegrate completely. If you hit an old bale against a wall, you're pretty much hitting the wall. Is the new bale really solider than, say, a tyre wall?

Richard

**dangerous** · 7th January 2011, 22:03

I here ya Tony, been thinking about the very same thing myself... what was used at Nelson? cos they did some damage to N Cain, those used at Methven as a few found out sure were hard to move and hurt like hell.

**ellipsis** · 7th January 2011, 22:16

...like kickaha says...........we're also getting into the personal liberties area too...nobody does it if they dont want to...on the other side of the coin is this...joe public stands behind those big bales...we have to look after them, we are definitely not allowed to kill them...

**wharfy** · 8th January 2011, 00:08

Originally Posted by CAMSec

...like kickaha says...........we're also getting into the personal liberties area too...nobody does it if they dont want to...on the other side of the coin is this...joe public stands behind those big bales...we have to look after them, we are definitely not allowed to kill them...

I have seen a kid killed by a bike that came over the top of a stack of bales and hit him full in the chest - he was sitting on his dads shoulders - they and 50 other people were standing in an area that had been roped off - the rope and the no access signs had been trampled into the mud !!!

Personally, I'd like to see something softer - A wool pack full of empty plastic bottles seems to work O.K. ( provided you don't go underneath them)

I've personally tested wool-pack-full-of-bottles, air fence and tyre wall - air fence is my preferred barrier

followed by wool-pack-full-of-bottles I don't want to hit another tyre wall and I really wouldn't like to try a BIG bale - It ain't gunna move !

**Grumph** · 8th January 2011, 05:27

Valid points - but in the current climate, spectator safety has priority over rider safety. We may eventully be reduced to riding betwen walls of stacked shipping containers....
In central Canty at least the small bales are still being made - but not in the numbers that they once were, agreed. Wyndham actually have a permanent store of bales for that meeting which I'm told have been re - bound once already.
Greymouth use I believe bags of Spagnum moss which works very well.
IMO if you want to see street races continue you will just have to acknowledge that the rider has to accept personal responsibility for his or her own safety and ride accordingly....and that's no different to events on permanent circuits.

**scracha** · 8th January 2011, 06:18

Originally Posted by Grumph

IMO if you want to see street races continue you will just have to acknowledge that the rider has to accept personal responsibility for his or her own safety and ride accordingly....and that's no different to events on permanent circuits.

Sorry, compromising rider safety due to simple lack of planning and/or organisation just doesn't cut the mustard. Standard bales still get made (the horsey brigade and lifestyle block owners buy em) but are slightly more expensive.

Perhaps WE should start our own airfence fund since some organisers and spectators don't value our lives very much.

**TonyB** · 8th January 2011, 07:15

I'm not saying don't use them at all, I agree they are excellent for spectator saftey. I'm saying be selective about where and how they are used. Personally I don't think they should be used in the areas where riders are most likely to end up if it all goes wrong.

I get the feeling that people have started using them without thinking about it too much-they've always used hay bales, the hay bales changed and they just kept using them.

**Billy** · 8th January 2011, 07:22

Originally Posted by scracha

Sorry, compromising rider safety due to simple lack of planning and/or organisation just doesn't cut the mustard. Standard bales still get made (the horsey brigade and lifestyle block owners buy em) but are slightly more expensive.

Perhaps WE should start our own airfence fund since some organisers and spectators don't value our lives very much.

Absolutely,Couldnt agree more,Most of these are 1 off meetings and the organisers have 12 months to sort this shit out and its just not acceptable that they cant make the venues as safe as possible.

**fi5hy** · 8th January 2011, 07:37

On one trip to Greymouth about nine years ago I was walking around as a spectator and I was pissed off to see after having a look in one wool bale to find (GET THIS) not the plastic milk bottles but the H crates they carry the milk bottles in. Now that to me is putting the riders in danger big time imagine one of those splintering and entering your body on impact!!!!!!!! I hope like hell they have stopped using them now.

**Kickaha** · 8th January 2011, 08:31

Originally Posted by scracha

Sorry, compromising rider safety due to simple lack of planning and/or organisation just doesn't cut the mustard. Standard bales still get made (the horsey brigade and lifestyle block owners buy em) but are slightly more expensive.

Perhaps WE should start our own airfence fund since some organisers and spectators don't value our lives very much.

Originally Posted by Billy

Absolutely,Couldnt agree more,Most of these are 1 off meetings and the organisers have 12 months to sort this shit out and its just not acceptable that they cant make the venues as safe as possible.

I think they do make them as safe as possible but within the resources and budget they have available, an insistence on airfence could mean the end of many street circuits due to not having the budget to provide it

No one forces you to ride at these events if you don't like the safety aspects don't enter

Does anyone know how much airfence is? I can't see pricing on their website?

Originally Posted by fi5hy

On one trip to Greymouth about nine years ago I was walking around as a spectator and I was pissed off to see after having a look in one wool bale to find (GET THIS) not the plastic milk bottles but the H crates they carry the milk bottles in. Now that to me is putting the riders in danger big time imagine one of those splintering and entering your body on impact!!!!!!!! I hope like hell they have stopped using them now.

I think all the bales are filled with moss now and have been for several years now

**AllanB** · 8th January 2011, 09:04

So logically a combination of large bales at the back and smaller ones at the front would offer spectator security and a 'softer' initial impact for the riders.

But with the way things are going they'll probably use cheese-cutters ........

**scumdog** · 8th January 2011, 09:04

Originally Posted by Grumph

Wyndham actually have a permanent store of bales for that meeting which I'm told have been re - bound once already.
.

Hmm, I only noticed those large round bales (the ones about chest-high when standing on end) being used there.

They certainly didn't move bugger-all when hit.

**Ocean1** · 8th January 2011, 09:52

Originally Posted by scumdog

Hmm, I only noticed those large round bales (the ones about chest-high when standing on end) being used there.

They certainly didn't move bugger-all when hit.

No, they had some old fashioned square ones scattered around, some under the bridge run-off iirc....