Sounds a bit scary when you put it all together...

[mashman]

take a good look at the earth's cycles over the past million or 2 years - even a nuclear war would not wipe out the earth. it would make an impact, but wouldn't make it 100% unihabitable

Jeans was 1 simple example, me leaving the tap on for 10 seconds to get cold water 5 times a day likely wastes litres of water, so I am guilty too. My main concern is product by-product. My waste is just warm water, theirs isn't. If the water table is tainted and is affected by the chemicals in the jeans, the dyes etc... and then dumped to soak in to the land, you may not only shaft the local water supply, you could also shaft the land... I can't find answers to those questions... wonder if anyone has actually researched it beyond testing the local water table once a month...

@ eco-marketing... these are not the droids you're looking for . If i can find the doicument i'll post it... wouldn;t you say that 1800 litres for 1 pair of jeans was excessive... propoganda aside?

[george formby]

Jeans was 1 simple example, me leaving the tap on for 10 seconds to get cold water 5 times a day likely wastes litres of water, so I am guilty too. My main concern is product by-product. My waste is just warm water, theirs isn't. If the water table is tainted and is affected by the chemicals in the jeans, the dyes etc... and then dumped to soak in to the land, you may not only shaft the local water supply, you could also shaft the land... I can't find answers to those questions... wonder if anyone has actually researched it beyond testing the local water table once a month...

@ eco-marketing... these are not the droids you're looking for . If i can find the doicument i'll post it... wouldn;t you say that 1800 litres for 1 pair of jeans was excessive... propoganda aside?

Well, they are not making water anymore. Every drop we have has been here for billions of years, going round & round. Coming down as rain, some going down the rivers into the sea, some taking the slow road through the rock or freezing. Ultimately it all ends up in the sea, is evaporated into fluffy clouds & starts again. Somebody explained to me why the sea does not just get saltier & saltier which may be relevant to your post but whichever way you look at it whatever we put into water ends up somewhere on the planet & is continuing to pile up.

[mashman]

Er, fucking selfish greedy atavistic people, but certainly not stupid.

Perhaps ignorant would have been a better word... although it amounts to the same thing... kinda... after all, you can still be utterly stupid and make money... after all businesses aren't really run by CEO's... they're run by the smarter people on the shop floor... but I take your point

Err... don't profits enable us to buy consumer goods?

imho no... you can run a non-profit business and still pay wages to people who will then in turn still buy stuff. The extra likely goes into research and the stock market etc...

I've always manitained it's not money itself that is the problem as if you take money out of the equation, you are still left with human nature which is the real problem

It's not money itself I agree, but i'd bet about 90% (probably 99%) of the worlds ills are caused by money, or the lack of. If that wasn't the case, then i reckon the number of starving people would be all but a distant blot on history. People can't be greedy when there's nothing around to get greedy over. If money wasn;t there, again, I reckon you'd see a MASSIVE drop in greed.

Well, they are not making water anymore. Every drop we have has been here for billions of years, going round & round. Coming down as rain, some going down the rivers into the sea, some taking the slow road through the rock or freezing. Ultimately it all ends up in the sea, is evaporated into fluffy clouds & starts again. Somebody explained to me why the sea does not just get saltier & saltier which may be relevant to your post but whichever way you look at it whatever we put into water ends up somewhere on the planet & is continuing to pile up.

Absolutely. Did we ever have acid rain before industrialisation? (waits for smart arse volcano answer). I've been wondering recently about Mining in Queensland (remembering that the waste water contains all sorts of shit, including cyanide) and if there has been any run off from those storage areas? The mind boggles...

blatantly plagiarised... I'm just making a noise for the sake of it. It's to late for talking IMHO.

[mashman]

As a side note. I used to creel for Devil Crab for a living off the West Coast of Scotland and they're hardy bastards... they would be transported, by road, to Spain in 4 - 5 days and still be alive at the other end... They are primarily a shore crab. +40,000 dead would take some doing. Perhaps the recent UK earthquakes had something to do with it, dunno, but +40,000 WTF!

[george formby]

Absolutely. Did we ever have acid rain before industrialisation? (waits for smart arse volcano answer). I've been wondering recently about Mining in Queensland (remembering that the waste water contains all sorts of shit, including cyanide) and if there has been any run off from those storage areas? The mind boggles...

.

Like what happened in Hungary (I think..) recently? Considering how toxic that water & mud was & the countries affected it disappeared off the radar remarkably quickly.

[mashman]

Like what happened in Hungary (I think..) recently? Considering how toxic that water & mud was & the countries affected it disappeared off the radar remarkably quickly.

pfff, maybe, not sure where it was but remember seeing the picture of "Orange" mud, bloody weird colour... recently, last week, a ship containing Sulphuric Acid tipped over on a German river and they're not sure if any spilled ... I remember as a kid (late 70's) watching the news and seeing frazzled forests accompanied with an acid rain warning as a funny coloured cloud crossed from the east... coulda been propoganda I suppose, but the trees were fooked.

[george formby]

pfff, maybe, not sure where it was but remember seeing the picture of "Orange" mud, bloody weird colour... recently, last week, a ship containing Sulphuric Acid tipped over on a German river and they're not sure if any spilled ... I remember as a kid (late 70's) watching the news and seeing frazzled forests accompanied with an acid rain warning as a funny coloured cloud crossed from the east... coulda been propoganda I suppose, but the trees were fooked.

Geez, that brings back memories of acid rain warnings in the UK when I was a nipper. It was reported much like the burn time is here over the summer.
Sulphur dioxide being belched out of the industrial heart land of Europe. Then we had Chernobyl. "Glow in the dark Welsh lamb"

[george formby]

Seeing as this thread has been reduced to a list of calamities (my fault, sincerely soz), I would like to share a little info I was given recently.
The local or possibly regional council have a water quality check on their website so you can see if the river, creek or beach your headed for is safe for swimming. Three rivers have not been out of the worst category for years, so the council in their wisdom have taken them off the website, no information available.
Now that's pro-active, clean, green politics for you.

Think I might head off home & burn some plastic in the barbie tonight, gives those pre-cooked, rectum, eyelid & nostril sausages a lovely taste.

[mashman]

Geez, that brings back memories of acid rain warnings in the UK when I was a nipper. It was reported much like the burn time is here over the summer.
Sulphur dioxide being belched out of the industrial heart land of Europe. Then we had Chernobyl. "Glow in the dark Welsh lamb"

yeah mate, that's probably the same ones that I saw... I were a UK nipper then too... and it goes to show that in our living memory, 30 - 40 years, that "business" hasn't changed it's environmental practices at all ... they only ever seem to move on to the next latest and greatest chemical that hasn't been banned, with pretty much the same results...

To stop local pollution, they increased the height of their smoke stacks allowing acid deposition to be transported further afield

[mashman]

I've just finished watching The Last Beekeeper on the Documentary channel ... In 1950 there were 200,000 bee keepers, in 2007 there were less than 1000. In 1980 there were 4.5 million hives, by 1990 there were 3 million. Since then the decline has slowed dramatically, but it's estimated that by 2035 there will be no bees left in the US at all. Some of the reasons given was travel stress, a Japanese mite, pesticide spraying... but essentially they can't put their finger on any single cause...

It was pretty sad watching grown men cry, saying they'd never seen such declines in numbers before, hundreds and hundreds of dead hives...

[Edbear]

I've just finished watching The Last Beekeeper on the Documentary channel ... In 1950 there were 200,000 bee keepers, in 2007 there were less than 1000. In 1980 there were 4.5 million hives, by 1990 there were 3 million. Since then the decline has slowed dramatically, but it's estimated that by 2035 there will be no bees left in the US at all. Some of the reasons given was travel stress, a Japanese mite, pesticide spraying... but essentially they can't put their finger on any single cause...

It was pretty sad watching grown men cry, saying they'd never seen such declines in numbers before, hundreds and hundreds of dead hives...

What people need to understand is that it is the seemingly insignificant that has the greatest effect on our lives. If the bees die, we die, if the oceans die, we die. Recently released info reveals that 40% of the fish catch is dumped as waste! 40%!!!! Man is raping the seas, killing everything in his path indiscriminately and wasting its precious resources at a rate that the sea-life smply cannot keep up with. Give us 15 years and you'll see the price and availablity of fish become a very real and urgent issue!

[mashman]

What people need to understand is that it is the seemingly insignificant that has the greatest effect on our lives. If the bees die, we die, if the oceans die, we die. Recently released info reveals that 40% of the fish catch is dumped as waste! 40%!!!! Man is raping the seas, killing everything in his path indiscriminately and wasting its precious resources at a rate that the sea-life smply cannot keep up with. Give us 15 years and you'll see the price and availablity of fish become a very real and urgent issue!

40% that's a disaster of epic proportions. That's 40% that's not breeding any more. Reckon they'd do that if there wasn't a $$$ in it? Not trying to harp on about it , but time is money, why sort through the fish when it wastes fishing time if it had been a pet the cnuts would be up on charges...

[mashman]

Pretty hardy birds... wonder why they were underweight and exhausted? Everything is in hand though, because:

"The Department of Conservation had predicted such an event before festive season.

"They said it was to do with the La Nina weather pattern, but why and what, I don't know,' she told SunLive."

That's some crystal ball... although you woulda thought they'd have been prepared a month or so later... wonder if they can do lotto number too.

[Banditbandit]

For some reason also, every year the US bee count reduces by a staggering 30% and they don't know why.

I know I know .. they've all been picked up by a flying saucer and transfered to a safe planet orbiting Altair ...

The Altairians also picked up the third gunman on the hill and transfered him to the Sirius Sector ...

[mashman]

I know I know .. they've all been picked up by a flying saucer and transfered to a safe planet orbiting Altair ...

The Altairians also picked up the third gunman on the hill and transfered him to the Sirius Sector ...

couldn't have anything to do with the attempts to halt the progress of African Killer Bees could it...

Sirius looks nice, i wish i were a bee...