What constitutes assault in NZ?

[Wolf]

Touching someone directly or through another person or by kissing or any other bizzare means that you can think of. Or threatening to do so but not by words alone. It must be by an act ie the clenching and raising of a fist, but only if they have the ability to do so. For example, a person who raises a fist but who is twenty feet from the victim does not have the present ability to apply that force.

First: Welcome to KB, Constable Plod. Best of luck upgrading the pushy.

I would argue that if a person is 20 feet away waving their fist you're within 1.5 seconds of a pummelling - based on the Tueller Principle which states that a person of average fitness can cross 21 feet/7 yards/6.5 metres (pick your favourite measurement) in 1.5 seconds, so a potential assailant with a knife is deemed a "lethal threat" at that distance. At 20 feet, you have 1.5 seconds from when the attack actually starts to recognise the attack has started and respond. Joe Average generally has had just enough time to look dumbly at the charging figure and say "What th.." As a moderately trained person, I might get as far as "What the f..." A US cop is expected to be able to draw a weapon and shoot in that time.

And that, of course, is if you're given the chance - if the bastard stands 6.5m away waving his fist or a knife rather than suddenly stepping in front of you and letting you have it at close range or stepping out from cover after you've gone past and attacking from behind.

Given that anyone within 21 feet is able to attack you within 1.5 seconds (except for 42-year-old asthmatic smokers such as myself) and you can't see the whole body of someone who has got within "kneeing distance" of you, it would be very easy for the average person to be way out of their depth. It's hard enough for those trained in self defence or fighting especially if the first thing you think is that you've been sucker-punched and then feel the blood running...

If someone grabbed my wrist I'm pretty sure I could slam them into the ground and make good my escape, I'm also pretty sure that in the 1.5 seconds available to me I could get out of the way of a 6.5m charge, but if I'm minding my own business and some punk decides he doesn't like the look of me (quite conceivable considering the way I look) and suddenly gets in my face, I'm probably going to get kneed in the nuts or knifed in the belly before I know what the fuck is going on.

[spudchucka]

When you consider the diseases passed in saliva, I'd say that's a serious assault.

Damn right it is.

[marty]

it's the reasonablness that the person has the ability to apply the force. a simple fist shake at 20 paces is not an assault - could be a threatening, but that's another can of worms. a raised fist accompanied by words like 'i'm come smash your face in' though is getting a little closer to an assault, but again, there are a lottery of offences available for that situation too.

[marty]

actually dave - it was june that you asked this Q, what has happenened since then?

[Lou Girardin]

If he was defending himself, the "fight" should be well and truly over. First rule of self defence: "Never turn it into a fight".

"Fights" you can lose. The idea of self defense is to do what it takes to get out of the situation.

Nice thought, but I've seen attempts to restrain out of control people turn into an extended struggle. The obvious solution is to put someone out. But if that goes wrong you'll be in a world of trouble.

[Wolf]

Nice thought, but I've seen attempts to restrain out of control people turn into an extended struggle. The obvious solution is to put someone out. But if that goes wrong you'll be in a world of trouble.

True. But I'm not thinking in terms of trying to restrain someone - and nor should be anyone other than a cop or an ambo - I'm thinking in terms of what it takes to get an escape route if talking didn't work/wasn't an option and there was nowhere to run - down 'em and run like fuck before they get back up, seek a hidden route out of the area and stay gone. Call the cops with a description from the safety of somewhere else. (Now I'll be told that that constitutes "leaving a crime scene" and makes me guilty in the eyes of some mealy-mouthed criminal lawyer, that I should stay around to get beaten senseless...).

Normally talking or avoidance has worked for me, including one narrow squeak when I was being followed down the road by a bunch of 4 guys who did not look like they were interested in knowing the time or where I bought my jacket - my mates turned up in the van and saw me so they stopped... Right at the point when I was working out what cover was available ahead and how I was going to best use it if I could run that far before they caught me.

Another time a guy spoiling for a fight accosted me at a pub and asked what the fuck I was staring at. I politely answered, in all honesty, that I hadn't been staring at him, that I was just daydreaming and I happened to be faced in his direction (which I suspect he knew, he was just excuse hunting) I apologised for any misunderstanding and he accepted it, obviously pissed off that I hadn't sworn at him and got aggro in return - he seemed to be hoping I would get aggro back so he could later say it was all my fault that he smacked me over. Took great delight in not giving him that opportunity. It served to show me, though, that you don't have to be looking for trouble (unless having a quiet drink in a pub is "looking for trouble") for someone to decide they want to have piece of you. Somehow I suspect that if I were heavier built and a number of centimetres taller, I wouldn't have been accosted in that instance.

[mstriumph]

.................................If you use self defence, you can only use up to equal force to defend yourself. If you have subdued the attacker, then carry on stoving his head in, then you have assaulted the attacker. Might not seem fair in some peoples eyes , but that is the law.

This is based on Oz, but I don't think there will be any difference.

.............................

you are in more of a position to know than i am, Marty - but i thought that, in a home invasion in west australia, i am permitted to use whatever force i [reasonably] consider necessary to repel an assault/defend myself and mine? the test of what is reasonable being what 'i' considered reasonable under the prevailing circumstances ...... ie didn't think the 'like with like' rule applied?

[obviously it's a given that i wouldn't be beating the attacker's head in in front of witnesses once he/she was down]

[Paul in NZ]

What constitues assault in this country?

My fecking income tax... bloody hell...

[ManDownUnder]

What constitues assault in this country?

My fecking income tax... bloody hell...

No - that's offensive behaviour.

But it's necessary or we wouldn't be able to pay for all the politicians, are we wouldn't want to see them having their perks cut now would we?

[Lou Girardin]

you are in more of a position to know than i am, Marty - but i thought that, in a home invasion in west australia, i am permitted to use whatever force i [reasonably] consider necessary to repel an assault/defend myself and mine? the test of what is reasonable being what 'i' considered reasonable under the prevailing circumstances ...... ie didn't think the 'like with like' rule applied?

[obviously it's a given that i wouldn't be beating the attacker's head in in front of witnesses once he/she was down]

I'd operate on the principle that if someone is breaking my door down, they'll get a mag full of .22's in the face (hopefully), then I'll worry about repercussions. I may be wrong, but I think my wife would rather have a live jailbird husband than be a widow.

[spudchucka]

Tis better to be tried by twelve than carried by six!

[ManDownUnder]

I'd operate on the principle that if someone is breaking my door down, they'll get a mag full of .22's in the face (hopefully), then I'll worry about repercussions. I may be wrong, but I think my wife would rather have a live jailbird husband than be a widow.

Be more fun to have a hungry Rotty chewing on their nutsack... in my personal opinion....

Besides, I could never condone and initial, lethal use of force. What if it's someone being chased, in fear for their very lives and looking for refuge?

... or any of a huge number of possibilities.

?

[ManDownUnder]

Tis better to be tried by twelve than carried by six!

No argument there though... but I'd temper that with "The best way to win a fight is by at least 50 meters"

I thought it was kinda funny coming from a TKD instructor... but it's stayed with me for all these years (1987 to be precise)

[SARGE]

...i'll give it a go...

OI SARGE... ummm.... GRRRRRR (*mean look right in the face*)

... how'd I do?

would an angry smilie help?

shit man... first of all.. ive been MARRIED 4 TIMES!!

second.. you dont think i lost my eye running with sissors do you?

try again please

[SARGE]

Besides, I could never condone and initial, lethal use of force. What if it's someone being chased, in fear for their very lives and looking for refuge?

... or any of a huge number of possibilities.

?

you are right there ..go for the knee and ask the what he wants when he's down