Do MNZ officials have to conform to rules?

[k14]

Officials are required to ensure the safety of everyone and have pretty broad powers on what they can do. There isn't an official I know that wouldn't have held you in pit lane if you came in on your warm up. Believe it or not, the meeting isn't all about you.

If you get a chance, ask if you can sit in race control for a whole race and pay attention. You may understand exactly what goes on then.

You didn't read what he said properly. He isn't complaining about being held up on the warm up lap and having to start from pit lane. He is complaining because the official thought it was within his powers to stop him from starting the race all together because his tyres weren't warm enough. This after the officials saying at riders briefing that riders are allowed to start from pit lane they just have to wait for the field to pass the exit.

What was wrong with your bike Choppa?

[CHOPPA]

Officials are required to ensure the safety of everyone and have pretty broad powers on what they can do. There isn't an official I know that wouldn't have held you in pit lane if you came in on your warm up. Believe it or not, the meeting isn't all about you.

If you get a chance, ask if you can sit in race control for a whole race and pay attention. You may understand exactly what goes on then.

Do you just selectively read? I said I was happy to start from pit lane but he didnt want us to even start from pit lane. He was stopping us from entering the track at all because our tyres were not warm enough? I think im a better judge of that

How do you know that? the officials are also accountable for their actions

True mate, I was a lap down anyway so even if they had given back the 10 seconds I would have still been last haha

[budda]

I didnt mind starting from pit lane but he was not even going to let us start from pit lane because we had cold tyres. Even though they had been on the warmers for 2 hours. We just took off.

be VERY careful what you wish for Sloan - the official who didnt know what he was doing is a MULTIPLE national champion, over a 35 year career, and could still teach YOU a few tricks, boy. Hand wringing whinging doesnt change the fact that YOU and NC screwed up .... the rules so carefully spelt out in the Supplimentary regs YOU signed to say you'd read and UNDERSTOOD, were applied fairly AND safely by an Official with more experience in the eye of his ..... than you've got in your whole illustrious career.

No wonder you're having tyre trouble if they'd been cooking for two hours ........

Move on - pick up your dummy from where you've spit it, dust it off, and prove your ability at Teretonga

[CHOPPA]

be VERY careful what you wish for Sloan - the official who didnt know what he was doing is a MULTIPLE national champion, over a 35 year career, and could still teach YOU a few tricks, boy. Hand wringing whinging doesnt change the fact that YOU and NC screwed up .... the rules so carefully spelt out in the Supplimentary regs YOU signed to say you'd read and UNDERSTOOD, were applied fairly AND safely by an Official with more experience in the eye of his ..... than you've got in your whole illustrious career.

No wonder you're having tyre trouble if they'd been cooking for two hours ........

Move on - pick up your dummy from where you've spit it, dust it off, and prove your ability at Teretonga

Your right, I didnt know who the official was to be honest. I wasnt supposed to be slinging shit at him it sorta went off track a bit there because like I say it was our cock up and it really didnt effect my result. The reason more for the question was the second half about Burga getting disqualified and if that were to happen to me what would be the best way to handle it? Talk to the riders rep...

[sugilite:Me]

be VERY careful what you wish for Sloan - the official who didnt know what he was doing is a MULTIPLE national champion, over a 35 year career, and could still teach YOU a few tricks, boy. Hand wringing whinging doesnt change the fact that YOU and NC screwed up .... the rules so carefully spelt out in the Supplimentary regs YOU signed to say you'd read and UNDERSTOOD, were applied fairly AND safely by an Official with more experience in the eye of his ..... than you've got in your whole illustrious career.

No wonder you're having tyre trouble if they'd been cooking for two hours ........

Move on - pick up your dummy from where you've spit it, dust it off, and prove your ability at Teretonga

Just reading this thread with interest. One of Choppa's points in his 1st post was an official inter-mating he could not go out on cold tyres. As far as I'm aware, no mention of that is made in the rule book. Just because the official may have an illustrious career (prob most of it tyre warmers were not around) does not always make them authorities on policing the current rules. I remember turning up to the nats at Bay Park back in the day on Strouds ex Angel OWO1 with floating brembos, only to have a elderly scrutineer try to ban the bike for loose brake discs. Multi champs
Tony Rees and Jason Mac told him they were all good, he just ignored them, until finally Robert Holden told him to pull his head in as they were supposed to be like that. My point is only that long careers and practical racing experience do not always make for a crack official. Don't get me wrong, these officials are much needed and appreciated, they are just not always the leading authority on current rules and how to implement them.

As for tyres being on warmers for two hours, warmers have had thermostats for many years to keep the tyres and optimal temps. Best practice is to put your tyres through as few heat cycles as possible. (acknowledged, a point a bit moot since at nats level the tyres most often just get used for one cycle)

Agreed, riders rep was best approach on the day, but I see no problem with discussing on the net as long as no hatchet jobs are performed.

[ellipsis]

riders rep was best approach on the day, but I see no problem with discussing on the net as long as no hatchet jobs are performed.

...too true...

[k14]

Just reading this thread with interest. One of Choppa's points in his 1st post was an official inter-mating he could not go out on cold tyres. As far as I'm aware, no mention of that is made in the rule book. Just because the official may have an illustrious career (prob most of it tyre warmers were not around) does not always make them authorities on policing the current rules. I remember turning up to the nats at Bay Park back in the day on Strouds ex Angel OWO1 with floating brembos, only to have a elderly scrutineer try to ban the bike for loose brake discs. Multi champs
Tony Rees and Jason Mac told him they were all good, he just ignored them, until finally Robert Holden told him to pull his head in as they were supposed to be like that. My point is only that long careers and practical racing experience do not always make for a crack official. Don't get me wrong, these officials are much needed and appreciated, they are just not always the leading authority on current rules and how to implement them.

As for tyres being on warmers for two hours, warmers have had thermostats for many years to keep the tyres and optimal temps. Best practice is to put your tyres through as few heat cycles as possible. (acknowledged, a point a bit moot since at nats level the tyres most often just get used for one cycle)

Agreed, riders rep was best approach on the day, but I see no problem with discussing on the net as long as no hatchet jobs are performed.

Very well said. Problems seem to come to the fore when officials get a bit carried away, budda's post above sums up the way they think about themselves quite nicely.

The tyre thing is just silly. How did he know the tyres weren't up to temperature? Did he have a thermometer to check? Although seeing as there is no supplementary rule in the first place regarding tyre temperature it is a totally pointless argument in the first place.

[sidecar bob]

Can somebody post a link to the rule that superbikes must run tyrewarmers & also to the tyre temperature/performance graph for various brands.
Dammit, i cant find it.
It must be there somewhere, or the situation would never have arisen.

[k14]

Can somebody post a link to the rule that superbikes must run tyrewarmers & also to the tyre temperature/performance graph for various brands.
Dammit, i cant find it.
It must be there somewhere, or the situation would never have arisen.

Can't you see it? Right below the rule that says sidecars must run at all rounds of the championship

[oyster]

sugilite got it pretty well summed up. The issue is whether choppa was OK to join the race, and was he entitled to. The answer should be yes and yes.
Buddha's ramble is a shocker. No specific discussion of the matter. Just a diatribe of threats, innuendo, sarcasm and insults. Add the parade of "war medals" (I must be right cos I'm an expert) makes it even worse. It's this shabby communication and closed mind thinking that poisons what should be good discussion, to make our sport better and safer in the future. Good on you Choppa for putting it up there.
Just remember though, the official is like a cricket umpire, they get it wrong, but we kinda have to live with it. Like the youngster I was supporting on Sunday being told his bike wasn't eligible because he hadn't qualified on it (he wanted to use another bike)
The official was obviously dead wrong, but he(we) had to swallow the decision.

As for Buddha, whoever is, I sure hope like hell he doesn't get into any position of authority or leadership in our sport, with a manner like that.

[CHOPPA]

I have a feeling Buddha was just saying shut up Chop and concentrate on racing

[sidecar bob]

Can't you see it? Right below the rule that says sidecars must run at all rounds of the championship

Ohh, there they are, in the section entitled, "Because Im The Boss & I Said So"

[SWERVE]

Lets hope that a "certain official" is not on flag duty at teretonga this weekend.......
Or races could be 16 laps....... or was that 15!!!!!......... or maybe 14.......
POT - KETTLE

[gixerracer]

I have a feeling Buddha was just saying shut up Chop and concentrate on racing

Yea Shut up Chop

[sidecar bob]

be VERY careful what you wish for Sloan - the official who didnt know what he was doing is a MULTIPLE national champion, over a 35 year career

Im a MULTIPLE national champion too, but I doubt it qualifies me to tell anyone how best to operate their bike. It just means that waaay back, the blokes that turned up to race in our class were not as good as us, or were less lucky.
Id suggest that the act of testing a competitors tyre temp (by patting it with a palm by the sounds of it) & excluding them from starting based on a personal subjective opinion alone, is indicitave of someone searching for an excuse to disadvantage a paticular competitor.