Time for a new class of racing?

[ellipsis]

....our last three meetings have proven that running the falling numbers of pre 63 and pre 72's together and combining the pre 82 and pre 89 classes into the formulas running in that era is working really well for the riders, the spectatator and the overall running of the day. Five classes are now filling four grids and the racing is closer and more exciting for all concerned....not only that...most riders actually think its the cool way to do it....leaves an opening for us to let the moderns in at our meetings with no extra track time being taken...suits our small club on our clubdays....

[Wingnut]

....our last three meetings have proven that running the falling numbers of pre 63 and pre 72's together and combining the pre 82 and pre 89 classes into the formulas running in that era is working really well for the riders, the spectatator and the overall running of the day. Five classes are now filling four grids and the racing is closer and more exciting for all concerned....not only that...most riders actually think its the cool way to do it....leaves an opening for us to let the moderns in at our meetings with no extra track time being taken...suits our small club on our clubdays....

Still cant help but think there is merit in running a pre95 class - perhaps it could be run with the pre 89s? I think there are many bikes out there that would be suited in such a class and with the relaxing environment that is experienced at the Cams meets. The numbers in attendance are sure to rise yet not engulf.......

[ellipsis]

....like I said Wingnut..it has been put forward that we should be going this way...will discuss it at next meeting...I can see bikes to '95 , maybe happening, but I doubt the club would handle anything more recent...

[Drew]

there is that.. and clubmans is a good introductory class. dont get me wrong.. Im still a few seconds off getting kicked out of clubmans but when i do I wont be putting my ZX9 into F1. It will probably be time to get a 600 then... unless I can run it in a pre00 class

Why not go to F1 on it? Sugilite has failed to mention that he infact ran a ZX9 the same as yours in F1 at the vic series and finished top five more often than not.

The pre '95 class is a bit of a strange one really. Might as well call it the fireblade cup because the bike was streaks ahead of the other manufacturers, with few exceptions like the YZF750sp, but there aren't enough of those around to make a dent and the price tag reflects it.

[cowboyz]

Why not go to F1 on it? Sugilite has failed to mention that he infact ran a ZX9 the same as yours in F1 at the vic series and finished top five more often than not.

The pre '95 class is a bit of a strange one really. Might as well call it the fireblade cup because the bike was streaks ahead of the other manufacturers, with few exceptions like the YZF750sp, but there aren't enough of those around to make a dent and the price tag reflects it.

i think i would prefer to be last in F2 than last in f1 tbh

[sugilite:Me]

If you get the boot from clubmans do you think a class should be specially created to suit you bike and situation? Thats crap.
Entry numbers are already diluted across a myriad of classes, the last thing we need is more.

If you are hard out enough to be too fast for clubbies get a bike that fits in with the current class structure, if you go pre '89 Junior you can have an alright bike for 3/5ths of fuck all.

As mentioned prior, I see this class being in with a formula class, prob formula 2. That would have an effect of boosting numbers on the grid. I'm not sure I'm interpreting your rep comments correctly, but it looks like you feel that their would be a flood of people to the new class and it would strangle Formula by diluting the class and that would not be fair on those that have made a large financial commitment to the formula class?
My comments are I feel there are a fair few riders out there on older bikes that have attended a fair few track days, are quite fast but are not financially able to commit to getting a whole new bike for formula (and are to fast for clubmans), and other riders that have competed in formula in the past, but their bikes are simply to old now, and also cannot commit financially to a new bike, and yet another group who have a older road bike, but are family men/women that are in the middle of a recession, they have enough money to race their older road bikes once in a while, but thats it (and often a wife/husband in the back ground that would confiscate any money they would get if they sold their currant bike to upgrade, don't ask me how I know this) The clubmans "A" class I mentioned would get all these groups to the track adding to the overall racing atmosphere imho. There will always be those riders that would want to achieve in the ultimate formula classes, I'm one of them. (if I had the $$$)

i dont think its about creating a class for every bike that shows up.. i think it about creatingthe oppourtunity for more people to get to the track. The days are pretty busy as they are so creating another class that will require another race is not really going to work.. but creating a class within a class, if it encourages more people to get into it then it cant be a bad thing.

Eggsactly my thoughts

....our last three meetings have proven that running the falling numbers of pre 63 and pre 72's together and combining the pre 82 and pre 89 classes into the formulas running in that era is working really well for the riders, the spectatator and the overall running of the day. Five classes are now filling four grids and the racing is closer and more exciting for all concerned....not only that...most riders actually think its the cool way to do it....leaves an opening for us to let the moderns in at our meetings with no extra track time being taken...suits our small club on our clubdays....

Proof right there!

Why not go to F1 on it? Sugilite has failed to mention that he infact ran a ZX9 the same as yours in F1 at the vic series and finished top five more often than not.

I fnished 3rd overall and a won a race or two, but that bike was only a set of flat slides away from being a full spec superbike, and was actually a thou after the big bore kit went in, and probably the fastest normally aspirated ZX9R in the country. Cowboyz bike is now a whole six years older again than my bike was back then and bog standard. Just mentioning it for apples with apples sake.

Personally, I would go formula myself if I was not committed to building a pre89 posties bike, but I do see a real opportunity in a clubmans A and B class (combined with other classes if course) to bring more riders out in these financially challenging times.

[Nonbeliever]

The pre '95 class is a bit of a strange one really. Might as well call it the fireblade cup because the bike was streaks ahead of the other manufacturers, with few exceptions like the YZF750sp, but there aren't enough of those around to make a dent and the price tag reflects it.

agreed, a '95 cutoff would be pointless.
pre 2000 would open it up to a great aray of pretty evenly matched machinery.

[avgas]

i dont think its about creating a class for every bike that shows up.. i think it about creatingthe oppourtunity for more people to get to the track. The days are pretty busy as they are so creating another class that will require another race is not really going to work.. but creating a class within a class, if it encourages more people to get into it then it cant be a bad thing.

If the fee's were kept reasonable I think this would be a great idea.
I am tempted with those ride-what-you-bring hillclimbs....but my poor bucket of bolts won't make it down there, race and come back in 1 piece.

But when your only racing yourself (the clock) could be a huge thrill.

[koba]

As mentioned prior, I see this class being in with a formula class, prob formula 2. That would have an effect of boosting numbers on the grid. I'm not sure I'm interpreting your rep comments correctly, but it looks like you feel that their would be a flood of people to the new class and it would strangle Formula by diluting the class and that would not be fair on those that have made a large financial commitment to the formula class?

i think i would prefer to be last in F2 than last in f1 tbh

No, dilution of all classes is what gets me, We already have heaps.
EDIT: I still mean this when applied to multiple classes on the track at once, it sucks to see "Yay, I came Second!" "Yeah? out of how many?" "Three... "

Club racing formula classes are great because they are quite inclusive.
The other side of that is that a wanked bike can be a whole lot faster than a stocker.

I think attitude is more of a problem than not having a pre-whatever class.

It seems some people won't race unless they have a competitive bike for the class they are going to race in, thats all well and good but the answer is to get a competitive bike for whatever class rather than starting yet another class.

A new class will be even and cheap at first but will always evolve to cost more and more as the standard of mods is raised until it becomes like all the other classes.

If one isn't prepared to shell out all the coin and effort involved in getting and running a competitive bike then the next best option is to run a non-competitive bike as fast as they can.

There is nothing wrong with this, I had a huge hoot running my stock NC21 and wangas, crossplies and all.

Surely with a bike like the 9 if you reach the cut off pace and get the boot you would be capable of keeping an OK pace in a formula 1 field? Whats the worry? Have you tried it?

I'm not totally against a pre '95 or 2000 class or whatever, I just think it needs to wait a fair few years yet, until then Clubmans is available and fast enough for most, those that are too fast should be OK in a formula class even if their bike isn't the ducks guts.

[johan]

well said koba

[malcy25]

well said koba

yep, bang on. Been waiting for someone to chip in with all that!

[sugilite:Me]

I do have some thoughts on your last post Koba, but before I put them down here, could someone please tell me what the cut off time is for clubmans before you get moved up?

[cowboyz]

I do have some thoughts on your last post Koba, but before I put them down here, could someone please tell me what the cut off time is for clubmans before you get moved up?

1.18 or less 3 times in a day at manfield

Ill reserve my space for thoughts just as soon as sugi has a say.....

[sugilite:Me]

Cheers for that cowboyz.
I thought it was about that lap time, it has been that for at least 10 to 15 years (or longer), yet the times in vic club formula classes have been steadily dropping for all that time, 5 years back, doing a 10 pretty much guaranteed you a podium, bout 10 years ago it was 12's and now you better be doing 8's. Maybe the solution is to simply move the clubmans time down to say a 1:16. Thats about 115% of a F1 time. Currently, 1:18's are the realm of the backmarkers in F1. coming from clubmans and being able to do a 1:16 at manfield will put you just around mid pack, maybe a bit further back, but not much.

[cowboyz]

now your coming up with some good ideas. the daunting thing about F1 that keeps people away is not wanting to screw up a leaders race with them doing 6 and 7s. 10 seconds over a 6 lap race is ok.. over a 12 lap race it means being passed twice.. the qualifying within 115% of pole should be held stricter too.