Free the weed, dope, cannabis, hooch, Fri 4 Feb, outside Auckland District Courts

[Edbear]

I'm struggling with your argument here, but lets see if I have it right. 'I have no personal experience in the effects of marijuana when smoked, but as I have in other drugs I can therefore come to the conclusion that the effects will be the same.'

Excluding of course the part about the 'established medical and scientific research on everything we need to know'. I'm not going to even touch that statement with a bargepole.

LOL!!! Well, we have in this thread, testimony as to the effects and reasons for use by users themselves, and the established medical evidence is pretty clear as to the effects of cannabis on the human body and brain.

Let's keep the two issues seperate. My personal views are anti-cannabis, and I've said they are my views, not everyone else's and I've tried to explain why I feel that way.

Secondly, the main reason for the OP was to get cannabis use decriminalised and I think the arguments I have put forward address both why I think they won't succeed, plus suggesting an avenue they could explore instead that may get them further.

[onearmedbandit]

I'm not disputing that smoking cannabis is bad for your health. There are of course other far safer methods of consuming it, ie via a vaporiser. Those are the 'established medical and scientific' opinions that I would want answers to, and even then I'd take it with a grain of salt. Not only for marijuana, but for everything we get 'fed' these days. It seems like every week 'established medical and scientific research' changes it's opinion on the 'facts'.

[avgas]

I quit for the very simple reason that while dope was relatively harmless. I had to go cold turkey on drugs (full stop).
Ironically now at a later stage in my life I am trying to cut down on my caffeine.......and its making the whole "drop the dope" thing seem like a walk in the park.
I mean how often do you get to work and think, gee wiz - i really need a doob.
Or go to a friends house and have them say "Cocaine or Dope?"

Or stay up all night working on something, look at the watch and go - "ah this will take a while, time for a spark up break"

(note : if you answer anything more frequently than annually - you have a drug problem and need to admit it. )

[Edbear]

Tell me why I should go to jail if I chose to grow some cannabis. Not simply because it's against the law either.

Tell me why my travel should be limited if I have a conviction for cannabis. Not simply because it's the law either.

Tell me. What risk am I to the general public? Who is getting harmed by my activity? Who's property is getting damaged/stolen when I smoke.

Well it's the old story isn't it? You personally may be no threat to anyone and a responsible adult. You personally have a great deal of respect among members of KB and the racing community including myself although not having met you in person. As with speed limits and most laws, TPTB make them to an average for everyone and cannot for obvious reasons make separate laws for individuals.

If the majority of the people in NZ wanted the law changed and could convince TPTB that they are right, the law would be changed. My personal opinion is of little consequence to anyone but me and those close to me. You may have a completely different opinion.

We make our choices, or at least should do, based on our own knowledge and experience for our best interests and in the best interests of those we care for. We should be trying to set a good example for others as well. However we digress... BOT

[Edbear]

I'm not disputing that smoking cannabis is bad for your health. There are of course other far safer methods of consuming it, ie via a vaporiser. Those are the 'established medical and scientific' opinions that I would want answers to, and even then I'd take it with a grain of salt. Not only for marijuana, but for everything we get 'fed' these days. It seems like every week 'established medical and scientific research' changes it's opinion on the 'facts'.

Two questions, Do you smoke it or take it in other ways? Secondly, why?

I too, have a realistic view of scientific research and never take anything a face value, so I always cross-reference and dig as deep as I can before accepting anything. Even so, there have been major stuff ups in medical science over the years but almost without exception, it is in the safety aspects of a certain drug that has been developed.

The research on cannabis is pretty clear and most research on the effects of various substances on the human body are reliable as to what they do, because they can be seen and measured. The disputes are usually over what levels are safe and can be tolerated, and this varies from individual to individual with some being able to handle certain amounts and yet others cannot handle any amount, ie: are allergic..

[HenryDorsetCase]

Yup, when logic, fact and reason start winning, attack the man personally rather than address the issue under discussion.

If we can discredit the messenger maybe we can discredit the message... Very old political standard still in use today.

ad hominem is the formal term. usually translated as "Play the man, not the ball."

I do think your arguments have logical flaws though. But I am through arguing. Its like homosexuality: (and, i believe will eventually be accepted in much the same way): as long as they arent at it in the street frightening the horses, they can do what they want.

[Smifffy]

I don't smoke, and have no desire to. Probably through a sheltered upbringing I was not really exposed to it in my teens, and after that was confident enough to be able to politely decline in a non-judgmental fashion in social situations.

I know plenty of people that do smoke, or partake in different ways, including some people I consider good friends and colleagues. I don't really think of them as criminals.

I do feel sorry for some of them though, such as the guy who has smoked since his early teens and has absolutely no motivation or energy whatsoever, and is seriously unemployed.

The bright IT guy who used to take a couple of hits from a bong on a saturday evening, and who now must reach for the vaporiser as soon as he gets in the door from work, and can't even contemplate doing anything else until he has a happy glow on. I haven't seen him for a while, but he was seriously considering experimenting with other substances when last we spoke.

I have given this a bit of thought, mainly because the debate has been raging amongst many of my acquaintances throughout most of my adult life. I wouldn't want to see many of these people labeled as criminals, yet I also don't want to see groups of people congregating in the reserve behind my house or by my letterbox toking it up. I don't want to stand next to somebody at the sidelines of the soccer who is puffing away on the shit either - tobacco is bad enough.

I think that the use is widespread, and the laws as they currently stand and are being enforced, strike a reasonable balance in keeping most use moderated and restricted to private areas. The majority of the enforcement targeting growers & dealers.

Having said all of this I seldom consider myself a hardened criminal if (when) I exceed the speed limit, nor in my younger days did I worry much about driving with excess alcohol, other than to hope I wouldn't be caught. It's years now since I have driven over the alcohol limit.

So I guess my viewpoint now is that if someone tells me they got busted for possession of a joint, I wouldn't consider them any differently to someone who told me they got done for speeding and no rego and no warrant.

If they got done for possession for supply, I'd say good job.

As for the NoRML campaigners and their ilk, I say "So you're a pothead - isn't that special? Just like the homos that feel the need to march up the main street naked, i don't care what you do, just don't involve me in any way shape or form"

[Smifffy]

During my Xmas holiday there was a bunch of us on the deck of a good little pub, and it was obvious that a guy sitting not far from us was puffing up a storm.

Even the dak smokers among our group considered that to be bad form.

[Edbear]

I don't smoke, and have no desire to. Probably through a sheltered upbringing I was not really exposed to it in my teens, and after that was confident enough to be able to politely decline in a non-judgmental fashion in social situations.

I know plenty of people that do smoke, or partake in different ways, including some people I consider good friends and colleagues. I don't really think of them as criminals.

I do feel sorry for some of them though, such as the guy who has smoked since his early teens and has absolutely no motivation or energy whatsoever, and is seriously unemployed.

The bright IT guy who used to take a couple of hits from a bong on a saturday evening, and who now must reach for the vaporiser as soon as he gets in the door from work, and can't even contemplate doing anything else until he has a happy glow on. I haven't seen him for a while, but he was seriously considering experimenting with other substances when last we spoke.

I have given this a bit of thought, mainly because the debate has been raging amongst many of my acquaintances throughout most of my adult life. I wouldn't want to see many of these people labeled as criminals, yet I also don't want to see groups of people congregating in the reserve behind my house or by my letterbox toking it up. I don't want to stand next to somebody at the sidelines of the soccer who is puffing away on the shit either - tobacco is bad enough.

I think that the use is widespread, and the laws as they currently stand and are being enforced, strike a reasonable balance in keeping most use moderated and restricted to private areas. The majority of the enforcement targeting growers & dealers.

Having said all of this I seldom consider myself a hardened criminal if (when) I exceed the speed limit, nor in my younger days did I worry much about driving with excess alcohol, other than to hope I wouldn't be caught. It's years now since I have driven over the alcohol limit.

So I guess my viewpoint now is that if someone tells me they got busted for possession of a joint, I wouldn't consider them any differently to someone who told me they got done for speeding and no rego and no warrant.

If they got done for possession for supply, I'd say good job.

As for the NoRML campaigners and their ilk, I say "So you're a pothead - isn't that special? Just like the homos that feel the need to march up the main street naked, i don't care what you do, just don't involve me in any way shape or form"

Well put!

[Berries]

so you'd be comfortable for your airline pilot to get stoned all weekend as long as he/she got to work on time on monday morning?

Did I say that ? I must have been wasted last night.

[Smifffy]

[Smifffy]

Must have been a massive protest:

http://www.google.co.nz/#q=cannabis+...8eec088feae71b

[onearmedbandit]

racing community including myself although not having met you in person.

Just quickly, as I'm pushed for time, I thought I better just check something here. Are you confusing me with Nigel who races Motards? The racing community wouldn't even know of me lol.

[Edbear]

Just quickly, as I'm pushed for time, I thought I better just check something here. Are you confusing me with Nigel who races Motards? The racing community wouldn't even know of me lol.

Could be, but don't you race the Gixxer?

[Kickaha]

Just quickly, as I'm pushed for time, I thought I better just check something here. Are you confusing me with Nigel who races Motards? The racing community wouldn't even know of me lol.

Easy mistake to make all you one armed guys look the same