F1GP

**crazylittleshit** · 22nd June 2005, 16:43

Originally Posted by wkid_one

Who watched the farce that was the F1GP this morning - 6 cars?!?!?! I would be pissed if I had paid for tickets, accomodation et al and finally got there only to see 3 teams rolling around the track....

Kinda makes a mockery of the sport really.

Atleast Michael will feel a bit better now....

big suprise on who won Too.....

**Brian d marge** · 23rd June 2005, 01:56

As edited by The mad word axeman ...Snip goes on a bit about usa not understanding f1 , and sunday fiasco killed any chances of a revival ...

quote
No matter what the pretext the result was that F1 ripped off 120 000 spectators who had paid as much as 150 dollars a ticket for a race who instead recieved as one team owner put it , a farce...

Snip goes on about bernie trying to save the day
then say the seven teams proposed a chicane . All teams except ferrari said yes , but the fim refused to change the rule citing safety.
In 1994 after the death of senna and Ratzenburger at san marino fia created a temporary chicane , then however ALL the teams agreed with this decision not just the 70 percent this time ( Isnt 70 percent a majority???)

Any way it goes on to say that there is a court case called FIA ,formula one,Michelin indy speedway ,,,it has been filed with the federal court . As they claim they were defrauded out of a minimum start of 20 cars ..

Watch that space

By the way Ferrari say they werent consulted till the monday??? ( WHAT ) and would have said no to the chicane ....

Seems to me Ferrari and the Fia have the same board members , or the same paychecks

Townley ...townley ....

Stephen

**Coldkiwi** · 23rd June 2005, 13:10

good lord, we've got some tyre experts tucked away on here don't we?! (not a p/t either!)

very interesting reading guys. It sound like michelin must've known some time in advance that they could be looking at some serious problems though. After all a graduate mech engineer should be able to figure out how much force is going to be on a rotating object travelling on a banked oval at a given speed. Despite the fact that the blame may lie with Ecclestone etc. Michelin sure as heck won't come out of this smelling of roses

**Coldkiwi** · 23rd June 2005, 13:17

So what DID happen to the back up tyres for Michelin then? Just reading the following off the FIA website:
"The reason for this debacle is clear. Each team is allowed to bring two types of tyre: one an on-the-limit potential race winner, the other a back-up which, although slower, is absolutely reliable. Apparently, none of the Michelin teams brought a back-up to Indianapolis. They subsequently announced they were flying in new tyres from France but then claimed that these too were unsafe."

**TwoSeven** · 23rd June 2005, 13:45

The backup tires used the same carcass so had the same problem.

Not possible to do the math to calculate the result as to many unknown variables. The normal method is to examine the tires - which is what they did (they x-rayed them).

**That Guy** · 23rd June 2005, 13:53

Originally Posted by TwoSeven

Note that Ferrari is the only team that designs and makes its only complete cars including engines.

Don't Toyota & Renault build the whole car too?

**Suney** · 23rd June 2005, 14:08

www.f1-live.com
Two good interviews from Minardi describing the events and also Max Q&A session. Read it before it goes to archives
http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlin...23001818.shtml
http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlin...22131809.shtml

This quote made me laugh

right, but why against the rules, surely you can change a circuit for safety reasons?
"There was no safety issue with the circuit. The problem was some teams had brought the wrong tyres. It would be like making all the athletes in a 100m sprint run barefoot because some had forgotten their shoes."

**Motu** · 23rd June 2005, 14:35

The letter from Paul Stoddard is good,from a different,although badly biased view point.

The Michelin tyres have a squarer shoulder than Bridgestone,this caused the ''tyregate'' scandal a few years ago when Michelin tyres were found to become ''wider'' with wear.It seems the banking overloaded the edge of the tyre at Indy.There are some pretty smart dudes at Michelin,they have all the data and knowhow,so it's hard to imagine how they could make such a blunder,but they did.How many of us have made a mistake in our own so called area of expertise? Well,I've made some monumental cock ups over the years I can only blame on myself....who should of known better.

**Lou Girardin** · 23rd June 2005, 16:48

Jean Todt of Ferrari said they were not consulted by the FIA. But he was honest enough to say that if they were they would have objected to the chicanes.
It's really funny how people are so keen to demonise the oldest team in F1. Who also happen to be one of only three teams that build road cars. Surely it's not the "tall poppy" syndrome at work. I don't recall such dislike of McLaren or Williams when they were dominant.

**Motu** · 23rd June 2005, 17:15

Originally Posted by Lou Girardin

I don't recall such dislike of McLaren or Williams when they were dominant.

That's because there was racing to watch,people get bored watching a single car go around the track winning....no matter what colour it was.McLaren once won all but one race in a season - but it was Prost/Senna having ding dong battles...in the same team,outragious driving,no one really cared they were driving for the same team.It'd be nice if Ferrari would allow competition like that....or if Schumacher would allow a team mate to beat him fair and square - this is where the animosity comes in.

**Coldkiwi** · 23rd June 2005, 18:03

Originally Posted by TwoSeven

The backup tires used the same carcass so had the same problem.

Not possible to do the math to calculate the result as to many unknown variables. The normal method is to examine the tires - which is what they did (they x-rayed them).

same carcass on a track you know is going to put the tyres under the most lateral stress of any track in the year? Still sounds like michelin missed the boat to me.

Of course its possible to do the math.. ok, maybe not a grad engineer, but a company like Michelin would have an absolutely fearsome amount of engineering brain and computer power to do just that. In an industry worth millions and millions of dollars each year, there is no way they would do the selection of tyres solely on a trial basis when they knew they couldn't do a trial at the circuit. After all, they're calculating the best compound (they're not doing that by testing trial and error, maybe fine tuning but basic composition would surely be sound) so why would they risk a PR disaster like this solely on testing? Not possible (even though they are french). The back up tyre should, as the FIA said, be rock solid in all forms

**TwoSeven** · 23rd June 2005, 20:31

I think the argument would be vaild if the tires were made the week before. But as otherwise suggested way long time before.

Personally tho, I just want to see the FIA dumped. I dont really care who is at fault.

**sAsLEX** · 23rd June 2005, 21:50

Originally Posted by Coldkiwi

After all a graduate mech engineer should be able to figure out how much force is going to be on a rotating object travelling on a banked oval at a given speeds

sorry your wrong, but that is first year mechanics, so a first year engineer could of done those calculations