(News) Harawira proud of nephew's protest

[mashman]

That's the important bit - the media edit what he says and present it in the most sensational ways ....

I watched TV1 news last night and thought "What they hell do middle class white men know about Maori politics and how are they qualified to comment?"

But it isn't "just" what the media print. One of the things i've noticed about Maori language, i'm not having a go by any means, is that it seem to refer to "us" and "our" a lot... unfortunately this is taken out of context, imho, to mean Maori people only (i'm sure sometimes it is)... Perhaps a slight adjustment of language for the media might help, dunno, but Hone's language just seems Maori centric and to hell with the rest of the white mofo's (the same white mofo's, red/blue, that I have a similar contempt for, I hope ). I may be way off base, and there are those on KB that have and will argue the opposite... something else I have to read which could "potentially" change my opinion towards the Maori party.

I'm one of them thar middle class white folk and know nothing about Maori politics. My reason. If their culture is so people focussed, I "shouldn't" need to. Same can be said for anyone voting for National/Labour/Greens etc... and their voting electorate... some will pay more attention than others, some will just vote for the party that cuts taxes .

[Bald Eagle]

Thanks for clarifying that. So this is what happens when people try to have a bob each way.

Unfortunately ( or not depending on your point of view ) this may have wider consequences in the damage it does to MMP as a concept.

Look for a single party government in November, as the various minor players fail to hold any sort of balance of power.

[onearmedbandit]

My perspective? Hone is a racist and I don't want him anywhere near any form of power.

[Bald Eagle]

My perspective? Hone is a racist and I don't want him anywhere near any form of power.

'cept maybe 240volts

[Banditbandit]

But it isn't "just" what the media print. One of the things i've noticed about Maori language, i'm not having a go by any means, is that it seem to refer to "us" and "our" a lot... unfortunately this is taken out of context, imho, to mean Maori people only (i'm sure sometimes it is)... Perhaps a slight adjustment of language for the media might help, dunno, but Hone's language just seems Maori centric and to hell with the rest of the white mofo's (the same white mofo's, red/blue, that I have a similar contempt for, I hope ). I may be way off base, and there are those on KB that have and will argue the opposite... something else I have to read which could "potentially" change my opinion towards the Maori party.

There are different words in te reo Maori all meaning "us" .. one word means "us" but excludes the listener/s and a different word means "us" and includes the listeners .. trying to translate this concept into English creates problems ...

Hone is Maori-centric - always has been. But that doesn't mean he excludes other cultures or people.

I'm one of them thar middle class white folk and know nothing about Maori politics. My reason. If their culture is so people focussed, I "shouldn't" need to.

Yes, many of us would agree. Howevfer, we also feel, that after 200 years in this country, the European-descent population could at least have the courtesy to learn - we have learnt theirs .. (and yes, I know you weren't born here and have only been here a short time - not getting at you personally).

Same can be said for anyone voting for National/Labour/Greens etc... and their voting electorate... some will pay more attention than others, some will just vote for the party that cuts taxes .

Yes ..

My perspective? Hone is a racist and I don't want him anywhere near any form of power.

I can see that - and I agree with you. Hone probably does too ... we are all racist in our heads to some degree ... it's how we act on that or not that is the important part ...

And no, I don't hate our European-descent peoples - I profoundly dislike a different group and for different reasons ... I just don't act on those thoughts ...

[oldrider]

I'm not sure what you mean ... they didn't go with Labour .. weren't part of that coalition ...

Hmmm, I didn't mean in an MMP government coalition, I was referring to the way Maori in general sucked up to the Labour party for all those years since Labours inception and it did them no good whatsoever!

Labour just took them for granted and gave them crums to keep their loyalty!

I personally was pleased to see the advent of the Maori party and the anticipation of more Maori participation in the running of the country, instead of hanging behind the anonymity and oppressive skirt of Labour!

I was also hoping that Honi's behaviour was simply raw political naivety as Maori individuals forged their way into the political arena but I fear that Honi has another hidden agenda!

It appears that Honi may sink or cripple the ship of Maori politics and set them back another decade or two, personally I hope not!

Then again, nobody said it would be easy!

[mashman]

There are different words in te reo Maori all meaning "us" .. one word means "us" but excludes the listener/s and a different word means "us" and includes the listeners .. trying to translate this concept into English creates problems ...

Hone is Maori-centric - always has been. But that doesn't mean he excludes other cultures or people.

naaar really ... I guess people have to be open to listening too, or at least be willing to seek clarification. I got it within 30 seconds of my first with Maori conversation (although "us" was conveyed to me as EVERYONE on the planet). After that I found I had more in common with Maori philosophy than any other culture i've encountered so far...

To that end, Hone needs to "change". I "understand" that he's protecting his culture etc... but it's not good enough to focus on one group where the culture seems to "religiously demand" the other... otherwise it's just the same as National and the business crowd... such a narrow focus will leave the door open for racism (eye of the beholder I know) and dishonesty, or even party infighting .

Yes, many of us would agree. Howevfer, we also feel, that after 200 years in this country, the European-descent population could at least have the courtesy to learn - we have learnt theirs .. (and yes, I know you weren't born here and have only been here a short time - not getting at you personally).

I guess that's where the problem starts. From the little i know (broken record), Maori would not enforce their way of life on people, as it's not the Maori way? Non-Maori learning Maori ways is all fine and well in terms of situational respect due and I wholly agree that Non-Maori should make more effort to learn/understand the etiquette when confronted with that sort of cultural situation... just as wearing black for funerals is generally a sign of respect, suits to work etc... however, until that time I doubt i'll go out of my way to learn/understand all of the customs...

If Hone's racist, it would be better that he just came out and said it. I have racist friends and can understand their reasoning for it, even though I don't particularly like their attitude and to that end I'd probably get a cleare understanding of his "flip-flopping" between Maori only and Non-Maori "ways".

[marie_speeds]

Non-Maori learning Maori ways is all fine and well in terms of situational respect due and I wholly agree that Non-Maori should make more effort to learn/understand the etiquette when confronted with that sort of cultural situation... just as wearing black for funerals is generally a sign of respect, suits to work etc... however, until that time I doubt i'll go out of my way to learn/understand all of the customs...

Funny you should say that.... a friend who teaches the Maori language at night classes tells me that the majority of her classes are made up Maori and surprisingly new immigrants. And I quote " we don't get many Kiwi's except for Maori but we have heaps of British, American, Canadian, European, South African and even Asians on our courses all wanting to learn Maori ".....

Then again some white friends of mine once told me to not put an umbrella up in the house and I laughed, put it up anyway and then stepped outside. FFS I wasn't about to get my hair wet it turns into uncontrollable curls in the rain. LOL.

Guess that makes me just like you when it comes to other's culture Is it laziness and ignorance or is it because we just don't give a rat's arse?

[mashman]

Funny you should say that.... a friend who teaches the Maori language at night classes tells me that the majority of her classes are made up Maori and surprisingly new immigrants. And I quote " we don't get many Kiwi's except for Maori but we have heaps of British, American, Canadian, European, South African and even Asians on our courses all wanting to learn Maori ".....

Then again some white friends of mine once told me to not put an umbrella up in the house and I laughed, put it up anyway and then stepped outside. FFS I wasn't about to get my hair wet it turns into uncontrollable curls in the rain. LOL.

Guess that makes me just like you when it comes to other's culture Is it laziness and ignorance or is it because we just don't give a rat's arse?

Coz the learn it at school?

don't knock the dragged through a hedge backwards look... it works

For me it's the rats arse. I have my own culture, laziness and ignorance . People are people.

[avgas]

There are different words in te reo Maori all meaning "us" .. one word means "us" but excludes the listener/s and a different word means "us" and includes the listeners .. trying to translate this concept into English creates problems ...

You think that's bad. The English version is worse.
At least that is what the rest of us think.

[SMOKEU]

I'll be sad to see Hone go, he's such a crack up and brings some much needed humour to parliament.

[Brian d marge]

You think that's bad. The English version is worse.
At least that is what the rest of us think.

How about in Japanese where the personal pronoun isnt used , its there but one "must read the air!" and in fact the whole process of trying to guess the others feeling BEFORE you speak

well a white puritanical Londoner , finds it ( this listening thing ) quite difficult

Be interesting to have a look at Maori culture , now that I have ten years of a very Zen culture behind me

Stephen

[Bald Eagle]

I'll be sad to see Hone go, he's such a crack up and brings some much needed humour to parliament.

We won't miss him , there'll still be over 100 of them left