Mr Goff and Mr Key, since you're planning to ask me to give you the top job...

[Smifffy]

What industry? What were they working on? What were their assumptions?

Suffice it to say a large manufacturing industry, that is energy intensive, and generates significant export earnings.

It would seem the biggest assumption that they made was to assume that they knew everything, and needn't bother asking the professionals who worked in the industry and also had post-graduate qualifications, who had already considered these options.

They then went public with a claim they could save us millions, so we said "show us the figures" we even went as far as vendor trials, but there was no way it was ever going to fly. Even the vendor bailed out in double quick time.

The thing that annoyed me the most is that there are similar, less sexy projects that will work, but thanks to their incompetence the overall concept has been discredited.

[shrub]

Suffice it to say a large manufacturing industry, that is energy intensive, and generates significant export earnings.

It would seem the biggest assumption that they made was to assume that they knew everything, and needn't bother asking the professionals who worked in the industry and also had post-graduate qualifications, who had already considered these options.

They then went public with a claim they could save us millions, so we said "show us the figures" we even went as far as vendor trials, but there was no way it was ever going to fly. Even the vendor bailed out in double quick time.

The thing that annoyed me the most is that there are similar, less sexy projects that will work, but thanks to their incompetence the overall concept has been discredited.

yeah, bloody postgraduates - they never know anything. Anyone would think spending years learning stuff was a good idea when we all know listening to your mates at the pub is the way forward.:

Whoever they were, they were idiots and your employer fucked up hiring them - or you don't know the full story. The first thing I do when I work with a business is spend forever learning everything I can about the business and involving people "on the shop floor" who know what works, what doesn't and how to change things effectively. Then it's a case of developing strategies (in consultation with all stakeholders) to achieve the client's goals and carefully and strategically implementing those strategies. And all the time you monitor everything and the moment it looks like something is not going in the right direction you pull back and/or make the necessary corrections.

[Smifffy]

yeah, bloody postgraduates - they never know anything. Anyone would think spending years learning stuff was a good idea when we all know listening to your mates at the pub is the way forward.:

Whoever they were, they were idiots and your employer fucked up hiring them - or you don't know the full story. The first thing I do when I work with a business is spend forever learning everything I can about the business and involving people "on the shop floor" who know what works, what doesn't and how to change things effectively. Then it's a case of developing strategies (in consultation with all stakeholders) to achieve the client's goals and carefully and strategically implementing those strategies. And all the time you monitor everything and the moment it looks like something is not going in the right direction you pull back and/or make the necessary corrections.

I know the full story alright. Better than you do. It had more to do with govt funding than very much else. I know what I'm doing, when it comes to that shit, it's my living, and the sustainability of my lifestyle depends on it.

Yes, the business screwed it up; they listened to them and not to me. I was right, they were wrong.

While everyone bitches about the cost of energy, it is still cheaper than the cost of capital. Every fricken time.

[shrub]

I know the full story alright. Better than you do.

If I knew more than you there would be something wrong because i dion't even know who you work for.

Yes, the business screwed it up; they listened to them and not to me. I was right, they were wrong.

Poor you. Bastards will know better than to listen to dumb old postgraduates when they have you on hand, hey?

While everyone bitches about the cost of energy, it is still cheaper than the cost of capital. Every fricken time.

Actually energy is incredibly cheap at the moment. Mind bogglingly cheap.

[Smifffy]

Poor you. Bastards will know better than to listen to dumb old postgraduates when they have you on hand, hey?

Actually, not poor me, poor the company, I didn't lose a cent, and I gained some cred. What makes you think I haven't done post-grad study myself?

Actually energy is incredibly cheap at the moment. Mind bogglingly cheap.

I agree with that wholeheartedly.

My point, and it wasn't supposed to be about me, was that I really don't believe that universities are the saviours of our industries and hence economy.

I do believe that universities are vitally important in providing skilled professionals to work within our industries, and are a great resource for those professionals to tap into for research and development. I don't think that universities are capable of delivering leading edge development to industry on their own recognisance.

So do you allocate funding to the university, or give a break to the business for working with the university?

I don't really think John or Phill are capable of getting that balance right, in conjunction with the other worthy causes vying for their attention.

[shrub]

My point, and it wasn't supposed to be about me, was that I really don't believe that universities are the saviours of our industries and hence economy.

I agree, there is no one "saviour" of industry apart from industry itself.

I do believe that universities are vitally important in providing skilled professionals to work within our industries, and are a great resource for those professionals to tap into for research and development. I don't think that universities are capable of delivering leading edge development to industry on their own recognisance.

So do you allocate funding to the university, or give a break to the business for working with the university?

A combination of the two. I am working very closely with a company to find a solution to a problem they have identified. They are getting the benefit of someone working full time on their problem plus my two supervisors and the resources of the university, and I am getting paid rather well (including most of my fees) and have a job offer at the end of my studies. I think situations like that are a great opportunity for business and academia to work together to grow and advance NZ business, but they don't happen by themselves.

I put it together by myself because I have business networks, the ability to knock on doors and broker a deal and my many years in business have taught me to identify opportunities. I believe what I am doing is quite unusual and the ethics committee had to break into a huddle for several hours to decide whether what I was doing was OK.

[aprilia_RS250]

yeah, bloody postgraduates - they never know anything. Anyone would think spending years learning stuff was a good idea when we all know listening to your mates at the pub is the way forward.:

Agree with you there, postgraduate students don't know much. I've been working in finance for 5 years now and have worked with 1st class honours, masters and few PhD's... Sit them down and ask them to make money for ya, ummmmm how do I do that is the fist question??? Gota spoon feed them for a year.

They expect more dough too than just undergrads so we don't tend to hire them anymore, a fresh undergrad who's hungry is worth more than a wanky post grad student who realizes he's wasted an additional three years and gained extra student debt for fuck all educational value.

[shrub]

Agree with you there, postgraduate students don't know much. I've been working in finance for 5 years now and have worked with 1st class honours, masters and few PhD's... Sit them down and ask them to make money for ya, ummmmm how do I do that is the fist question??? Gota spoon feed them for a year.

They expect more dough too than just undergrads so we don't tend to hire them anymore, a fresh undergrad who's hungry is worth more than a wanky post grad student who realizes he's wasted an additional three years and gained extra student debt for fuck all educational value.

Actually, in a way you're right, but the problem is not having a postgrad degree - the problem is lack of life experience. I have a first class honours in commerce and am doing my Masters now, but I also have 20 odd years of business experience, from being a rep on the road to the marketing manager of a major corporate to running my own business. I am gaining an enormous amount of benefit from my studies and have significantly increased my value to prospective clients and employers; and therefore increased my potential income. People pay me for what I know, and the more I know the more I can charge. Undergrad was fun and interestiing - I did a political science degree, but my postgrad studies have been about building knowledge in a defined area, and 2 years intensely studying a subject is proving to be of huge value.

I think a 21 year old new grad with an undergrad degree probably realises that they don't actually know anything, whereas a 22 year old with an honours degree probably thinks they do, and an ignorant person who thinks they know shit is useless. I came to university late in life, and only did it because I had kind of achieved all my goals and wanted to try something different. I think the minimum age for university should be 25 and both of my kids have been told to get a trade or at the very least travel first, and although my son is keen to go to uni, he is in the army training as a mechanic first.