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Thread: Who's next campaign! (all's quiet on the ACC front!)

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellzie View Post
    Basing it on the amount of petrol you use is unfair as different vehicle types have different risk factors. Bikes are known to have a much higher risk factor than your standard passenger vehicle, yet they use less fuel (generally) and therefore would pay less ACC.

    Not that the current system is fair - but ACC are starting to make some mutterings that should improve the system.

    Reading a lot of the posts on here, I think people need to be a bit better informed about what the levy is used for and what the statistics are before they make judgement. There is a lot of useful (and motorcycle specific) information on the ACC website.

    ACC - for motorcyclists

    ACC Levy Consultation - info for motorcyclists

    "For the past six years, our levies have been set so that ‘other vehicle’ owners fund 88-90% of the costs of injuries sustained by motorcycle and moped riders. The table below shows the percentages since 2000/01."

    Levy Consultation

    Recommendations for Levy Rates for motorists
    If you believe the ACC misinformation I have to ask do you work for ACC or Nick the Prick and do you also believe ACC is broke

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellzie View Post

    ACC - for motorcyclists

    ACC Levy Consultation - info for motorcyclists

    "For the past six years, our levies have been set so that ‘other vehicle’ owners fund 88-90% of the costs of injuries sustained by motorcycle and moped riders. The table below shows the percentages since 2000/01."

    Levy Consultation

    Recommendations for Levy Rates for motorists

    You have swallowed the bait havent you?

    70$ per car in cross subsidization is a total myth - do the math

    2.15 MILLION x 70$ = a shitload more than motorcycle injuries add up to for an entire 5 years let alone the current 'to be funded' year
    I still argue this point at every MSL meeting I attend

    Buy a better quality calculator before accusing those who have been involved in this issue for 2 years of not having 'correct data'

    I for one have far more current data and numbers than ACC's website.
    Just ride.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellzie View Post
    Basing it on the amount of petrol you use is unfair as different vehicle types have different risk factors. Bikes are known to have a much higher risk factor than your standard passenger vehicle, yet they use less fuel (generally) and therefore would pay less ACC.
    argument has validity but confuses risk with cost. The risk factor isn't necessarily higher, but the medical cost typically are. Hence the larger bikes pay more ACC levy even though the smaller bikes have more crashes.

  4. #34
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    can anyone add that poll? i wanna know how many of us are paying multiple amounts of acc

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by lone_slayer View Post
    can anyone add that poll? i wanna know how many of us are paying multiple amounts of acc
    On average just assume all of us. For every one that only has a bike, there is another that has 3 or more.
    Quote Originally Posted by James Deuce View Post
    Don't argue with the pigs, man. They'll tap your phones and steal your weed and make your old lady do things she won't do for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitcher View Post
    Sexually transmitted diseases are one thing, sexually affected carnage is something else entirely. Ladies, if his cock's that small that he's prepared to put you at risk for a root, look elsewhere. Seriously.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneY View Post
    You have swallowed the bait havent you?

    70$ per car in cross subsidization is a total myth - do the math

    2.15 MILLION x 70$ = a shitload more than motorcycle injuries add up to for an entire 5 years let alone the current 'to be funded' year
    I still argue this point at every MSL meeting I attend

    Buy a better quality calculator before accusing those who have been involved in this issue for 2 years of not having 'correct data'

    I for one have far more current data and numbers than ACC's website.
    I admit I have read the data assuming it is right, and if it's not it doesn't surprise me. Very interested to see your current data? is it available for download somewhere?

    Yes I have only recently started reading about all this, have tried to be well informed before voicing my opinion, and am not saying that EVERYONE else is uninformed but I do think that SOME of the comments on here are quite unrealistic and unfair or not workable.

    Enjoying the discussion though..

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by lone_slayer View Post
    Can someone start a poll to find out how many vehicles we all own?
    ie
    Motorbike
    Bike + car
    bike x2 + car
    bike + car x2
    more than 2 bikes + car
    Bike + more than 2 cars

    Would be really interesting where we all stand on this
    Nice idea - you can make the poll yaself just start a new thread

    I have
    1x Toyota Caldina (shared ownership)'
    3x big bore mootrcycles (my own)
    Missus has a gsx250 (hers)
    5 vehicles....... I see fuel as a very valid option, also catching the teenager using the lawnmower (the missus son)

    Fuel works and provides equity and for a truckie its a business expense and is still likely cheaper than the current commercial levy they pay
    Just ride.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellzie View Post
    I admit I have read the data assuming it is right, and if it's not it doesn't surprise me. Very interested to see your current data? is it available for download somewhere?

    Yes I have only recently started reading about all this, have tried to be well informed before voicing my opinion, and am not saying that EVERYONE else is uninformed but I do think that SOME of the comments on here are quite unrealistic and unfair or not workable.

    Enjoying the discussion though..
    There's a lot of us that have almost lived and breathed this problem for 18 months. There is almost nothing we haven't heard or thought about or explored. One thing we have all learned is that ACC and Nick the Prick tell lies. You would do well to remember that whenever you come across any sort of 'official' release from either of them.
    Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSTRS View Post
    There's a lot of us that have almost lived and breathed this problem for 18 months. There is almost nothing we haven't heard or thought about or explored. One thing we have all learned is that ACC and Nick the Prick tell lies. You would do well to remember that whenever you come across any sort of 'official' release from either of them.
    Coming into this discussion relatively green, and going only by what I have read, I am just saying it as I see it. I am very interested in it and would like to find out more, so if you could point me in the direction of more accurate information, would be much appreciated. Also, I think key word there is "almost nothing" .. you should welcome new voices with new opinions, rather than dismissing them so quickly. Fresh minds often come up with new ideas that haven't been discussed or thought of. I may not be one of them, but then again I might be.

  10. #40
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    Yes, you might. Not flaming any suggestions you may have...UNLESS they are based on info you have garnered from official releases. Such as the 'subsidy' issue. Or even the 18x more likely to have an accident crap. For instance.

    Take a week or so to trawl through the ACC forum here. Read everything. Including all the linked reports and studies etc. Then you will know what most of us know.
    Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneY View Post
    Fuel works and provides equity and for a truckie its a business expense and is still likely cheaper than the current commercial levy they pay
    Really? The levy you pay goes up with the distance traveled, more fuel used. Most accidence occur within 5k of home. Therefore the long distance traveler has the lower risk of accident but the higher levy.
    I was told a long time ago that a mistake with NZs accident stats was they are based on death per population whereas when you look at deaths per k traveled our rates are average to low.
    Also more k's traveled tends to mean more experience and therefore saver operator

  12. #42
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    There is never going to be a levy option which satisfies every combination of user / vehicle / km's travelled.

    The big issue is to quote from another thread "the difference between equality and equity" when actually all we want is a system that does not discriminate based on some form of risk/fault based formula.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bald Eagle View Post
    all we want is a system that does not discriminate based on some form of risk/fault based formula.
    like the ACC scheme as it was originally planned.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellzie View Post
    Coming into this discussion relatively green, and going only by what I have read, I am just saying it as I see it. I am very interested in it and would like to find out more, so if you could point me in the direction of more accurate information, would be much appreciated. Also, I think key word there is "almost nothing" .. you should welcome new voices with new opinions, rather than dismissing them so quickly. Fresh minds often come up with new ideas that haven't been discussed or thought of. I may not be one of them, but then again I might be.
    Email Dr Charles Lamb - associate Proffessor of Lincoln University and the head of the Australaisian Institute of Motorcycle Studies

    He can give you more information
    And...just check the numbers with a 10$ warehous calculator

    All this info is here on this website as well if you search the ACC campaign section - I am at work and limited to brief responses at present
    Just ride.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellzie View Post
    Coming into this discussion relatively green, and going only by what I have read, I am just saying it as I see it. I am very interested in it and would like to find out more, so if you could point me in the direction of more accurate information, would be much appreciated. Also, I think key word there is "almost nothing" .. you should welcome new voices with new opinions, rather than dismissing them so quickly. Fresh minds often come up with new ideas that haven't been discussed or thought of. I may not be one of them, but then again I might be.
    As you can see from the posts on here it is almost impossible to come up with a plan that suits and is fair to all road users, heaven knows a lot of us have been trying since the tyrannical regime came down so heavy and unjustly on our case.

    I for one welcome any new perspectives on the issue but it has to be based on the facts as they are not on the proven bare faced lies of the ACC nick Smith.

    Seriously mate, those statistics are falsehoods and propaganda designed to fool the electorate... and it did, Even you as a biker coming to this issue late in the day have taken that data as legitimate and truthful and referenced it as such.

    I hope someone can point you in the direction of the legitimate statistics so you can see what we've all been fighting for and hopefully come on board.

    Truth is we got shafted majorly and unjustly, proven over and over again, getting TPTB to acknowledge their deceit and correct it so the system is fair to all is one hell of a task.
    Oh bugger

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