Check your consciences

[Paul in NZ]

Dealing with people in my job you could almost say the opposite.

Alcohol seems to exacerbate whatever social problems and inadequacies people have.

Dropping the 'drinking age' was a MAJOR error in me experience and should be reveresed. (and no, I don't want to hear stories of "Well I got booze easy-as when I was 18" or whatever), the fact is offending and convictions of thoe under 20 went up after the drop in the 'drinking age' and 14 -17 year olds got into strife that a generation ago few would have got into.

This would be my experience as well. I'm sorry but I genuinely believe the lowering of the drinking age was supported by the liqour industry so that they could 'open new markets' (ie get their stinkin hooks into the young) and it was a big backwards step...

[steve_t]

This would be my experience as well. I'm sorry but I genuinely believe the lowering of the drinking age was supported by the liqour industry so that they could 'open new markets' (ie get their stinkin hooks into the young) and it was a big backwards step...

And guess who gets more money if more booze is sold? (besides the booze manufacturers )

[oneofsix]

Whilst I understand where Paul and Scumdog are coming from I think the lowering the drinking age is another legislation rather than education thing and this is where it really failed. We a concentrating on stuff like age, which varies with person, and yes I could have got pissed at 12 when the age was 21, rather than attitude.
When they lowered the age they bought in tougher penalties (for sellers) and started to police heavier, initially, they brought in 18+ cards etc and still the young get pissed. Legislation fails without education.

[nighthawk]

Steve T beat me to the point on this one ...you will never get control over this problem as long as more than one partie makes a profit from it, I agree with Paul and Scumdog, you only need to spent an hour in any District Court in this land to see the effects that alcohol has on our society.

there is no quick fix answer to this problem, education would go a long way but as Oldrider put it , the culture has been here far to long.

[Genestho]

I will always remember the alive at 25 program (1980s) that came to my high school. They said 1 in 5 will be dead or in serious a crash in their life time. As we walked in a line the reaper touched one of us in five. Will never forget that.

SADD does or did that with a coloured ribbon excercise, 20 or so students to stand up and each handed a coloured ribbon.

Each colour represents a family member, emergency workers, the driver and the victim/s, you could hear a pin drop.

I've been involved in education and had some blown away kids, last year I had a 16 year old girl fall into my arms crying, after sitting her down with a glass of water, we had a good chat, I'd assumed she'd gone through something similar - it turned out she was so overwhelmed by my personal story..education and real stories do get through, it's just difficult for various reasons to get education out there..

Regarding culture, places like the EU has it closer to right, in Italy particularly where red wine is a staple part of meals, I guess families learn how to respect alcohol better..

[Usarka]

Regarding culture, places the EU has it closer to right, in Italy particularly where red wine is a staple part of meals, I guess families learn how to respect alcohol better..

A lot of that though is intertwined with their culture and societal behaviour. It wouldn't work just by replicating "wine at family mealtimes" in NZ (imho).

[mashman]

There's an all girls school, or at least 1, in the UK that introduced an after-school wine club in an attempt to curb the need for binge drinking... not sure how it turned out, but it seemed like a bloody good idea... they'd cook food, sit with different wines to taste and learn to enjoy the drink and not the affect...

I know a few guys over here that brew their own beers, make their own spirits etc... and do so to find that perfect tasting drink, almost competitively so sometimes... perhaps it's worth trying, dunno.

[Scuba_Steve]

There is belief that this sort of thing is atually caused by the Anti-drinking movement, as its "bad" to drink so when you can YOU DO!!! & being as its "bad" it becomes more attractive during those rebel years which is probably why the likes of France where your breast feed wine as a baby don't have the probs countries with booze restrictions do.

So in my opinion its not the age its the anti-booze, denial, "don't talk about it", its "bad", not learning to respect it culture we have.

[ellipsis]

....most of the social disorder in kiwi is down to the evil drop and cigarettes are probably one of the biggest health issues alongside that...the excise or more , the lack of excise made from these two together would add up to a fantastic amount of revenue...wherever the taxes go from these excises is irrelevant...probably prop a large segment of govt expenditure... we would all have to live with and bare a lot of change to the tax laws if we were serious about change...it would be great to be able to not have to put up with the effects of misuse every time we step out the door...this message is brought to you by a confirmed pisshead and cigarette smoker...it would be great to see the country clean up its act....i think it is down to every one of us, though...

[steve_t]

....most of the social disorder in kiwi is down to the evil drop and cigarettes are probably one of the biggest health issues alongside that...the excise or more , the lack of excise made from these two together would add up to a fantastic amount of revenue...wherever the taxes go from these excises is irrelevant...probably prop a large segment of govt expenditure... we would all have to live with and bare a lot of change to the tax laws if we were serious about change...it would be great to be able to not have to put up with the effects of misuse every time we step out the door...this message is brought to you by a confirmed pisshead and cigarette smoker...it would be great to see the country clean up its act....i think it is down to every one of us, though...

Man, I had to read what you wrote 3 times to understand what you're trying to say. Where do sentences start and finish? Are you drunk at the moment? Am I drunk at the moment?

[ellipsis]

...fuck all to do with grammar..its a breathing exercise...

[neels]

My conscience is clear.

We let our kids have a drink every now and again, if it's appropriate, often they won't bother when offered. We don't tell them that drinking is bad as that would be hypocritical, but they do understand that it should be in context with the occasion.

I know they'll come home pissed to bits at some point, and I'm pretty sure they understand that we won't be too concerned as long as they come home in a taxi, and after they've mown the lawns with a hangover we'll go and retrieve the car. It's been made very clear that any drinking & driving or breaking of licence conditions will mean catching the bus, they might own the car but I can make damn sure it stays parked for as long as I see fit.

[oneofsix]

I know they'll come home pissed to bits at some point, and I'm pretty sure they understand that we won't be too concerned as long as they come home in a taxi, and after they've mown the lawns with a hangover we'll go and retrieve the car. It's been made very clear that any drinking & driving or breaking of licence conditions will mean catching the bus, they might own the car but I can make damn sure it stays parked for as long as I see fit.

Now there is a balance of consequences to education. not so over the top that they get too tied up in the punishment that they forget the lesson.

[steve_t]

My conscience is clear.

We let our kids have a drink every now and again, if it's appropriate, often they won't bother when offered. We don't tell them that drinking is bad as that would be hypocritical, but they do understand that it should be in context with the occasion.

I know they'll come home pissed to bits at some point, and I'm pretty sure they understand that we won't be too concerned as long as they come home in a taxi, and after they've mown the lawns with a hangover we'll go and retrieve the car. It's been made very clear that any drinking & driving or breaking of licence conditions will mean catching the bus, they might own the car but I can make damn sure it stays parked for as long as I see fit.

Now there is a balance of consequences to education. not so over the top that they get too tied up in the punishment that they forget the lesson.

+1 Great approach

[Genestho]

My conscience is clear.

We let our kids have a drink every now and again, if it's appropriate, often they won't bother when offered. We don't tell them that drinking is bad as that would be hypocritical, but they do understand that it should be in context with the occasion.

I know they'll come home pissed to bits at some point, and I'm pretty sure they understand that we won't be too concerned as long as they come home in a taxi, and after they've mown the lawns with a hangover we'll go and retrieve the car. It's been made very clear that any drinking & driving or breaking of licence conditions will mean catching the bus, they might own the car but I can make damn sure it stays parked for as long as I see fit.

I'm out of bling.
That is so great to read, common sense and parenting consequences, similar to the educative approach I try when talking with teens.

They're teenagers, peer pressure/partying/drinking/whatever, is a small part of growing up in NZ (like it or not - to shun the idea would generally cause them to do it anyway IMO - you wouldn't have open, honest communication to be able to assist or teach better choices!!) just think of getting home safe or sober planning and further, knowing 'morning after' BAC can and frequently does, (couple that with little sleep) still cause crashes and/or could put you over the legal limit.

I made a particular note of saying this last year and to let kids know there'd be a law change of zero alcohol and driving for their age group coming, that those points were more important to know than ever..

A lot of that though is intertwined with their culture and societal behaviour. It wouldn't work just by replicating "wine at family mealtimes" in NZ (imho).

Absolutely - You're quite right mate! (IMO) Out of bling!