Violence in the workplace

[KiWiP]

you havnt answered my question, old chum, whats your profession?

Sorry, yours didn't provide enough entertainment for me. But I do like the 'old chum' tag.

I'm a secondary school teacher so am dealing with these issues daily. I am teaching in a decile 10 school at the moment but we do have kids with severe issues. I have also taught in inner city decile 1 schools in the UK (where pat downs do come up with knives and drugs).

So I do feel qualified to rant on this issue. Violent consequences do not prevent violent actions. If they did then Texas where they have the death penalty would have no street murders.
Violent actions (in fact any transgression) should never have no consequence but the consequences should ensure that the behaviour changes.

This is one of the major challenges of teachers bringing children from childhood to adult hood as painlessly as possible. If we have the support of the parents it makes the job much easier. If not it makes it more difficult but doesn't stop us trying. It doesn't help when the general public come wading in with smack them, cane them, string 'em up type sentiments. It's not practical, legal and doesn't work.

[Usarka]

I personally engage the kids in a series of conversations to get them to change their behaviour. That's what we want surely, kids who don't transgress. Or do you just want to punish children to make yourself feel better about the fact you did sod all initially to prevent such behaviour?

I'm genuinely interested - how does this "lets talk" approach make the good kids feel? Because they will be perceiving that the crime has gone unpunished.

Usually they're the victims of these "bad" kids and seeing the perpertrator of violence/assaults/bullying getting no punishment must have a double impact on them. But they don't matter, right...?

[JimO]

I'm a secondary school teacher

.

well that says it all, i suppose you are on the principal of Morrinsville schools side regarding letting the 3 bullys back into the school that beat the girl up?

[Smifffy]

well that says it all, i suppose you are on the principal of Morrinsville schools side regarding letting the 3 bullys back into the school that beat the girl up?

Probably end up setting policy at the ministry.

[KiWiP]

I'm genuinely interested - how does this "lets talk" approach make the good kids feel? Because they will be perceiving that the crime has gone unpunished.

Usually they're the victims of these "bad" kids and seeing the perpertrator of violence/assaults/bullying getting no punishment must have a double impact on them. But they don't matter, right...?

The point of a 'conversation' is to force the child to confront their negative actions, appreciate the impact they have on their own future and on their peers. The other pupils see a punishment happening because the kid has the conversation in their own time. Therefore to the outsider it appears they are getting a detention. To the kid it is worse than a detention because they have to confront their actions and come up with an agreed set of actions they are going to perform that are acceptable behaviours. If they stray then we have a further conversation. To date the maximum is three conversations. This does not create little angels but it does engender an acceptable working relationship in the classroom.

If bullying is involved this is a much larger issue and is reported up the chain of command. I make the bully aware that I know what is going on and will be keeping track of them to ensure it doesn't continue. I do more work though with the victim . Victims of bullying very often make themselves targets by the way they dress, act, speak, behave. They generally have low confidence and self esteem so I see it as important to work with them to raise that confidence.

[Virago]

...The postings you are slanging off at are only peoples way of venting frustrations...

Apparently not...

Such sweet irony...

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...-Sweet-revenge

[Smifffy]

The point of a 'conversation' is to force the child to confront their negative actions, appreciate the impact they have on their own future and on their peers. The other pupils see a punishment happening because the kid has the conversation in their own time. Therefore to the outsider it appears they are getting a detention. To the kid it is worse than a detention because they have to confront their actions and come up with an agreed set of actions they are going to perform that are acceptable behaviours. If they stray then we have a further conversation. To date the maximum is three conversations. This does not create little angels but it does engender an acceptable working relationship in the classroom.

If bullying is involved this is a much larger issue and is reported up the chain of command. I make the bully aware that I know what is going on and will be keeping track of them to ensure it doesn't continue. I do more work though with the victim . Victims of bullying very often make themselves targets by the way they dress, act, speak, behave. They generally have low confidence and self esteem so I see it as important to work with them to raise that confidence.

Most delinquents that I've had to counsel, whether adult or child, appear incapable of confronting their actions, and in their mind they seem to be able to justify their behaviour and in fact feel victimised, and therefore validated in continuing their behaviour because nobody else understands them, except for perhaps that nice man that lets them continue with their behaviour until they get to fake an apology in their own time. One day something will happen so that they no longer even trust the nice man and will turn on him too.

I saw it again just yesterday.

[Usarka]

Victims of bullying very often make themselves targets by the way they dress, act, speak, behave. They generally have low confidence and self esteem so I see it as important to work with them to raise that confidence.

So it's the victims fault.

You know that's what they used to say about rape victims eh.....

[Smifffy]

Victims of bullying very often make themselves targets by the way they dress, act, speak, behave. They generally have low confidence and self esteem so I see it as important to work with them to raise that confidence.

Oh, you mean in the same way victims of rape make themselves targets?

[KiWiP]

well that says it all,

Interesting point. 'Says it all' ? Says what? I'm a teacher committed to getting the best from children today for a greater New Zealand tomorrow. I have experience in the field of child development and believe I am good at what I do and strive to understand my weaknesses and improve.

i suppose you are on the principal of Morrinsville schools side regarding letting the 3 bullys back into the school that beat the girl up?

How the hell do you make that connection? I have no knowledge of this other than what we have all read in the papers. Real nasty stuff, unprovoked attack apparently with very serious consequences for the victim. But the principal did not let the kids back. The Board did. This comprises of the principal, staff, members, parents, local worthies and probably a pupil representative. As to why they took this action I can only refer you to the principals statement here.

well that says it all,

Well you appear to have an issue with teachers. So it doesn't really matter what I have to say does it. You are going to continue to believe that 'bashing the buggers' is the way to a better society

[KiWiP]

Oh, you mean in the same way victims of rape make themselves targets?

Nope and out of context. However if anyone voluntarily puts themselves in an a hazardous environment they must accept some responsibility for the consequences.
A motorcyclist who rides in shorts and jandals must accept the gravel rash is partly their fault not just the fault of the person who knocked them off. The rider might expect to get home safely without getting knocked off but this is not the case as we know.
A girl who dresses in extremely sexy gear goes to a bar known to be frequented by wretches and low lifes, gets so wasted she can't walk, then gets assaulted. She may expect in a decent world to get home safely but we know this is not so. She must be prepared to accept some responsibility for the result. This does not excuse the rapists in any part what they did is wrong but why it happened is partly the girls fault (in this hypothetical case)
It is all contextual and this is why we have the courts to assess this.

[KiWiP]

So it's the victims fault.

No. But they can help themselves to not be the victims and we adults can and should help them.

[Smifffy]

A girl who dresses in extremely sexy gear goes to a bar known to be frequented by wretches and low lifes, gets so wasted she can't walk, then gets assaulted. She may expect in a decent world to get home safely but we know this is not so.

Yeah, that decent world went out the window when the only consequence for violent little kids was a fake apology in front of their peers, who also learn that it's ok to do WTF they like, as long as they can admit it was wrong and they say they're sorry.

[Hitcher]

What is it with violence in schools? If assaults like this happened anywhere else the Police would be summoned. Criminal, victim, witnesses, Court case, sentence. Simple. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. Go directly to jail.

And don't get me started on bullying, which is also unpunished in a similar vein to Ms Tart's assault. Why?

[Edbear]

Oh, you mean in the same way victims of rape make themselves targets?

I think the point made is that there are things you can teach victims to help them become a less likely target. The perpetrators target a certain type or appearance and if you can make yourself unlike their preferred target, you are less likely to be a victim.

As everyone agrees, the issue is education. In the case of the perpetrators, educating them as to the right way to behave in society and to change their attitudes and behaviour. In the case of the victims, helping them to avoid being a potential target.

Of course, violence must not be excused or minimised and must attract appropriate consquences, but more than punishment is required if the behaviour is to change.