Violence in the workplace

[Smifffy]

What is it with violence in schools? If assaults like this happened anywhere else the Police would be summoned. Criminal, victim, witnesses, Court case, sentence. Simple. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. Go directly to jail.

And don't get me started on bullying, which is also unpunished in a similar vein to Ms Tart's assault. Why?

Apparently, we are to believe that it is because of leaky buildings in New Zealand, and Americans in Iraq.

[Usarka]

As citizens we give up the right to enact revenge when we are wronged with the understanding that this will be judged and enacted by the criminal system. Most of the time there is some punishment dished out and this helps the victims deal with the situation.

Not punishing kids is completely counter to this fundamental principle of our society. Kids do not see detention or a "talking to" as a punishment especially for assault or bullying.

Victims have rights too....

[Smifffy]

I think the point made is that there are things you can teach victims to help them become a less likely target. The perpetrators target a certain type or appearance and if you can make yourself unlike their preferred target, you are less likely to be a victim.

As everyone agrees, the issue is education. In the case of the perpetrators, educating them as to the right way to behave in society and to change their attitudes and behaviour. In the case of the victims, helping them to avoid being a potential target.

Of course, violence must not be excused or minimised and must attract appropriate consquences, but more than punishment is required if the behaviour is to change.

I understand that, after all, in the bullying thread here I clicked on the stuff article and as I looked at the photo I thought to myself "If I had gone to school in a 'George Michael' singlet with a pink bracelet on my wrist with hair that looks like that, I would probably have been bullied even more than I was."

That's not really the point though, is it?

Are you suggesting we ask Ms Tart to consider what she may have been doing, or wearing to provoke such an outburst from the little darling?

How much responsibility are you prepared to place with her for the incident?

[Edbear]

I understand that, after all, in the bullying thread here I clicked on the stuff article and as I looked at the photo I thought to myself "If I had gone to school in a 'George Michael' singlet with a pink bracelet on my wrist with hair that looks like that, I would probably have been bullied even more than I was."

That's not really the point though, is it?

Are you suggesting we ask Ms Tart to consider what she may have been doing, or wearing to provoke such an outburst from the little darling?

How much responsibility are you prepared to place with her for the incident?

I take your point here completely. I doubt YT did anything at all to attract the attack, perhaps save deny the kid something he wanted or maybe counselled him for something, you'll have to ask her what she thought brought it on. Regardless, there is no justification for the assault and the boy needs both discipline and counsel. Unfortunately, as has been said, she is unlikely to get parental support in his case.

[Oakie]

He had 2 wooden sticks - 'Mr white stick' and 'Mr black stick'.

Sounds like inter-racial gay porn!

[SMOKEU]

Sounds like inter-racial gay porn!

Seems like you've been watching too much of teh pr0n again.

[JimO]

Well you appear to have an issue with teachers. So it doesn't really matter what I have to say does it. You are going to continue to believe that 'bashing the buggers' is the way to a better society

i have no issues with teachers at all, but im glad your not teaching my kids, bashing the buggers isnt the way to a better society but neither is giving them a pat on the back and telling them they can do what they like, ask the cops on here what they think of the young scrotes they have to deal with that come out of your classrooms

[Hitcher]

Indeed. At what stage of their upbringing are children supposed to learn about accepting consequences for their actions?

[James Deuce]

So I do feel qualified to rant on this issue. Violent consequences do not prevent violent actions. If they did then Texas where they have the death penalty would have no street murders.
Violent actions (in fact any transgression) should never have no consequence but the consequences should ensure that the behaviour changes.

But that's the issue, isn't it? For this kid there are no consequences, for most kids there are no consequences. It's unfair that Janet got caught up in it and I'm really sorry that she ended up attacked.

I know what she does (really well) for a job and I imagine that in this instance the child's mother is over-compensating horribly and she's doing it because when you have a kid with any sort of special needs, you are on your own, you get no help or guidance as to how to manage behavioural issues, and despite the constant KB clamour that "It's the parent's fault, burn them", as usual KB doesn't have a cogent answer that even begins to address the wider picture.

Janet hasn't gone further with the issue because she's a grown up and should be respected for that and respected for her deeper understanding of the situation.

In the meantime would anybody like to tell me how you become a "good parent" in a country where "good parenting" isn't modeled for a huge percentage of the population, where a Government without ideas on how to improve the distribution of wealth or the plight of children in NZ demands that both parents work because the economy's rooted (Look at our balance of payments. Go on. Tell me it's OK. It was ruined before the GFR), and that demand isn't really necessary because the time is long past when the average Kiwi family can subsist on one wage and Grandparents are being recruited to do all the early childhood stuff?

This isn't a black and white issue, there's no magic switch to flick.

You lot go on about being a brotherhood of bikers. The truth is, when it gets too hard, you all disappear into the scenery. When was the last time one of you lot did something to positively affect someone's day, and that someone wasn't a biker you were sucking up to or a relative you're obliged to help?

I'm no saint, as coldrider so kindly pointed out, but just this last Thursday, feeling like crap (I now have pneumonia and am confined to quarters), I'd walked to the train station, got on a full train and spotted a young lad deliberately hogging a seat by putting his bag next to the window and sitting in the aisle seat.

I wandered up to him (sweaty, grumpy bald old guy) and said, "Oi kid, move over", he about shat himself and and bleated "Sorry" in a voice that cracked and rose two octaves, and then I wandered back to the door area and asked the young miss with the impressive décolletage if she'd like a seat. I then sat on the steps and read my book. Stuff like that is what models reasonable behaviour in others. You have to demonstrate it.

If you're not prepared to do, then shut up. Janet's restraint was still an example to this kid, whether you lot like the outcome or not, and Janet "does" for a job.

[Number One]

The only time I ever saw a chair thrown at school it was by a teacher at a student.

He wasn't paying attention.

Haha I saw that at my school too. That teacher started throwing chalk and dusters and topped off the third term throwing a chair. Old Small organ Morgan...ahhh the good old days.

An errant kid and people are calling for him to be tortured, sodomised, and murdered.

I suspect one day my wee darling might be the subject of similar cries fo vengeance and wrath. I don't condone the actions either but having a kid that sometimes loses himself COMPLETELY sure makes me understand that not all kids are just bad arses with bad families, crap parents, shite environments and no respect for authority. Sadly life is not that black and white all the time concerning all the people.

No. But they can help themselves to not be the victims and we adults can and should help them.

IF only it was as simple as that for all 'victims'. Try as we might, my boy (who I do love btw) is terribly effing annoying to peers....and much of the time not even on purpose...he is desperate to be friends and keeps getting himself in more and more shit when he tries, then he gets upset because the other kids are arseholes to him and he reacts in ways he KNOWS aren't helpful but by that time he's out to lunch emotionally and all rational thought is totally out the window...

Indeed. At what stage of their upbringing are children supposed to learn about accepting consequences for their actions?

At what stage of LIFE do some people learn to accept the consequences for their actions? I know a 59 year old that could do with some help on that front! Serious fucking help!!!!

ALSO not all kids/adults have the emotional awareness and self control to stop themselves from doing bad shit...even if later on they are hugely remorseful about the action it doesn't change it nor does it make it better...sometimes it doesn't prevent it in future either.

[KiWiP]

but neither is giving them a pat on the back and telling them they can do what they like, ask the cops on here what they think of the young scrotes they have to deal with that come out of your classrooms

Well you are very good at reading 1/2 the posts I make let's hope you read the other half of this one.

When would I ever give them a "pat on the back and tell them they can do what they want"? Never. When the kids infringe they are made to confront their actions and recognise the consequences of their actions. This is a very uncomfortable experience for them. In many cases they have never had to do this before. But hear this. It does change their behaviour. This is what we want isn't it?

Loved the last bit of your post. Lovely bit of journalistic conjuring. From what you write, when I teach kids they become young scrotes that get into trouble with the police.

As for the first bit which I was going to ignore but heck while I'm here. I wouldn't mind teaching your kids because I don't discriminate. I would also understand when their homework was full of errors as they had probably asked Dad for help.

Their - possessive
There- position
They're - contraction (of they and are)
e.g. They're fucked because of their idiot father, that one over there.

Your - possesive
You're - contraction
e.g. You're grammar is one of your failings.

Pretty confident you won't be upset by this because I'm fairly convinced you never read down this far

[pc220]

Well you are very good at reading 1/2 the posts I make let's hope you read the other half of this one.

When would I ever give them a "pat on the back and tell them they can do what they want"? Never. When the kids infringe they are made to confront their actions and recognise the consequences of their actions. This is a very uncomfortable experience for them. In many cases they have never had to do this before. But hear this. It does change their behaviour. This is what we want isn't it?

Loved the last bit of your post. Lovely bit of journalistic conjuring. From what you write, when I teach kids they become young scrotes that get into trouble with the police.

As for the first bit which I was going to ignore but heck while I'm here. I wouldn't mind teaching your kids because I don't discriminate. I would also understand when their homework was full of errors as they had probably asked Dad for help.

Their - possessive
There- position
They're - contraction (of they and are)
e.g. They're fucked because of their idiot father, that one over there.

Your - possesive
You're - contraction
e.g. You're grammar is one of your failings.

Pretty confident you won't be upset by this because I'm fairly convinced you never read down this far

Does the smell ever get to you ?. You know, from always having your head firmly jammed up your own arse.

[Skyryder]

you havnt answered my question, old chum, whats your profession?

What the fuck does that have to do with opinion?

Skyryder

[Buyasta]

As for the first bit which I was going to ignore but heck while I'm here. I wouldn't mind teaching your kids because I don't discriminate. I would also understand when their homework was full of errors as they had probably asked Dad for help.

Their - possessive
There- position
They're - contraction (of they and are)
e.g. They're fucked because of their idiot father, that one over there.

Your - possesive
You're - contraction
e.g. You're grammar is one of your failings.

Pretty confident you won't be upset by this because I'm fairly convinced you never read down this far

You do know the old saw about folks in glass houses?
Perhaps you'd have been better off with something along the lines of "Your grammar is poor, you're upsetting all the grammar nazi's."

[KiWiP]

You do know the old saw about folks in glass houses?
Perhaps you'd have been better off with something along the lines of "Your grammar is poor, you're upsetting all the grammar nazi's."

LOL that's what ewe get four thinking too much or not enuf...