High-Viz: Have you been hit by a car?

**sportsbikesrock** · 26th March 2011, 15:38

I was intentionally reversed upon - kinda beside the point cos I was seen. Yeah tell me about it wtf!? I was okay scoot was okay main thing I suppose, kinda making me want a bike more now after that. Never worn a high viz vest, but my jacket is white with red.

**apes** · 26th March 2011, 16:20

personally i've never been hit by a tin can and i've never worn a high vis vest, but i do presume everyone out there is determined to knock me off, yet i still ride like a loony from time to time.
with regards to the low side on visibility of a bike at night, the same is true of a car and remember when passing a car the greater the space you leave between you and the car, the longer you spend in their blind spot

**grbaker** · 30th March 2011, 07:16

Originally Posted by slofox

Half of the problem with glo vests is that every man and his dog are wearing them - thereby making then less noticeable. "When everyone is somebody, then no one's anybody" (to borrow from G&S). IYKWIM.

Same with having bike headlights on. As cars start using daytime headlights as well, bikes become less noticeable in the ocean of lights.

Self defeating.

Bang on. yesterday everyone was slowing down on the motorway as the approached are particular late model car that was driver by a chap wearing a very HiViz jacket.
Seemed people thought 'Cop, better slow down.'.. & he wasn't (Why people slow down from 90 to 75 when they see a cop in a 100km zone??)

I have seen construction workers (who wear high-viz bibs) driving home... same effect... so once wear are all decked out in neon yellow, orange & lime then the only visible bike rider standing out is the guy wearing black.

**p.dath** · 4th April 2011, 15:00

I'm writing a research proposal to try and establish the causative effect of high-viz vests on the motorcycle accident rate.

One of the trickiest problems I'm trying to solve is how to get a random sample of road riders. Every method I can think of has a bias, the trick is to choose the one with the least bias.

I'm thinking the best approach might be to get all the "change of ownership" records for motorcycles for the last 10 years, take the most recent change, and then randomly select amongst those people. Some people own more than one bike, and those responses would obviously have to have the duplicates removed.

Pros that I can think of:

Includes those people with no licence.
Includes those people who do not have a registered bike.

Can you guys think of any good ways to get a random sample of motorcycle road riders?

**bogan** · 4th April 2011, 15:16

I'm guessing you want a sample of active riders on NZ roads, including all license types? (including unlicensed) What about scoots?

I agree, hard to get a random sample of them, currently registered owners would be best I think. Change of ownership would bias it towards those who go through bikes quicker, and cut out the classics somewhat.

Another option is to do the sub-types, specify you want x amount from different groups and select them that way, then you could conclude that high vis is more/less helpful for the different groups.

Is the proposal to give some people vests and some not, or have people alternate between vest and not vest? I'm betting there would be benefits to doing it one way over the other, not a stats guru though so not sure which or why.

**Dave Lobster** · 5th April 2011, 09:21

Originally Posted by p.dath

Some people own more than one bike, and those responses would obviously have to have the duplicates removed.

If it's going to be read by anyone from the government, you'll need to leave those duplicates in. Government counts each bike, rather than each rider. Hence the ACC levy per bike, rather than per rider.

**p.dath** · 5th April 2011, 16:39

Originally Posted by bogan

I agree, hard to get a random sample of them, currently registered owners would be best I think.

I did consider that, but it concerns me about the growing number of motorcyclists that I hear about not registering their bike because of the cost (aka ACC levy).

I guess I could consider all the bikes registered in a single year, such as 2009, to exclude the ACC effect.

That's why I started thinking about change of ownership forms. I'm pretty sure most people would want to file the change of ownership forms, and taking a sample of 10 years would hopefully catch a lot of riders. Personally, I don't know a single road rider who both rides a bike on the road, and has not bought a bike in the last 10 years.

**bogan** · 5th April 2011, 17:06

Originally Posted by p.dath

I did consider that, but it concerns me about the growing number of motorcyclists that I hear about not registering their bike because of the cost (aka ACC levy).

I guess I could consider all the bikes registered in a single year, such as 2009, to exclude the ACC effect.

That's why I started thinking about change of ownership forms. I'm pretty sure most people would want to file the change of ownership forms, and taking a sample of 10 years would hopefully catch a lot of riders. Personally, I don't know a single road rider who both rides a bike on the road, and has not bought a bike in the last 10 years.

I mean the registered owner, as in who they have recorded as owning the bike (which is similar to what you would get form change of ownership forms), not the owner of a licensed bike (rego is technically vehicle licensing, which is what we skip paying acc on) bike. That way it'll cover all bikes in the system that are either currently licensed, or are on hold.

**Smifffy** · 10th April 2011, 16:14

Originally Posted by p.dath

I did consider that, but it concerns me about the growing number of motorcyclists that I hear about not registering their bike because of the cost (aka ACC levy).

The govt doesn't care about those people because they are filthy criminals who have no right to be on the road anyway....

I look forward to more red bling from them that don't understand sarcasm so well.

**Lau** · 12th April 2011, 17:52

Like others, I too have been struck by a car while at a standstill at an intersection, while dressed up like a dayglo disco fairy... I now refuse to wear hi-vis while riding and even if it becomes compulsary, I'll still flaut the law. I have come to the conclusion that most car drivers are too retarded to spot a fire engine or an ambulance. So regardless what you are wearing, chances are that you havn't been seen.

**pappito** · 15th April 2011, 14:19

just another approach:

ACC says:
While one of the top two causes of those crashes is the motorcyclist losing control, the other cause is a motorist simply not seeing the rider.
(http://www.acc.co.nz/preventing-inju...e-road/PI00052)

Clear and probaly true. But may I ask why the bikers has to pay higher levys for other motorists careless driving? Does HiViz make a difference?

I am not against the vests (even I don't want to see them compulsory) as I wore HiViz vest back in Europe when I rode my scooter in the city. If the cager won't see - you could wear anything, you gonna be hit. Now I have an orange/white/gray textile jacket with reflective stripes and stiches and the only advantage is it isn't as hot as the black ones in summer. That is all.

Night riding is different, but the only useful part of the HiViz jacket/vest is the reflective stripe on the back. It helps.

The bikers try everything, from Scotchlite to strobo breaklights, fluoro-lime helmets to loud pipes. There is no point to punish them with higher ACC levies and forget to educate the cagers also.

Have you seen the big, blueish,kerbside billboards about the distance you should give to a bicycle? (1.5 meters by the way) Have you seen another mentioning check your bloody mirrors continously to learn what is happening around you while you're cruising w/ your car? Have you seen one about the motorbikers? No? Surprise.

Actually, a very good example, the orange cones roadside. How many got hit by the passing cars - and all of them has a high visibility orange color and reflective stripes, they are sitting much closer to the drivers than us, and they aren't even moving

What we could expect?

We are not enemies on the road, most of the bikers are cagers as well, aren't they?

Fortunatley, at least the motorway is getting better, most of the time, if the traffic is gridlocked, most of the drivers pull over a bit and let us go. (I spend a lovely 50km a day w/ them

In the last six months there was only one case where the cager closed my way and did not let me go. It is not too bad, but I fear on normal roads the danger is more present.

**awa355** · 15th April 2011, 14:54

No, I've never been hit by a vehicle while wearing my Hi Viz. But then, I have never been hit in the 43 years of riding before taking up wearing a Hi Viz jacket.

Am currently looking at what is avalible to reflect off my bike from the side. I ride a lot at night, and think that my side on presence is less noticable than my tail light,jacket strips and my headlight. Just dont want to turn my unit into a xmas tree.

**oneofsix** · 15th April 2011, 15:09

Originally Posted by awa355

No, I've never been hit by a vehicle while wearing my Hi Viz. But then, I have never been hit in the 43 years of riding before taking up wearing a Hi Viz jacket.

Am currently looking at what is avalible to reflect off my bike from the side. I ride a lot at night, and think that my side on presence is less noticable than my tail light,jacket strips and my headlight. Just dont want to turn my unit into a xmas tree.

Tron is coming to a bike in NZ

Know of some that have fitted neon lights under the fairings