Dirty rivers dead dogs and dairy farmers.

[Deano]

There's not that many dairy farms backing on to the Hutt river that I can think of.
However there are a number of lifestyle blocks which probably use septic tanks for waste disposal rather than the piped sewer system.

Whiteman's and Mangaroa Valley - Akatarawa Valley.

Maybe not extensive dairy farming, but fdefinitely some degree of farming and potential run off.

Greater Wellington apparently did a survey of Mangaroa Valley in particular when toxic algae became first became a recognised issue. I don't believe they found a significant degree of non compliance.....I'm not sure how hard they went to the letter of the law though.

I think pollution control is quite a culture shock for a lot of NZ farmers to get their heads around. "But I've been doing it this way for years !!"

[Gone Burger]

Whiteman's and Mangaroa Valley - Akatarawa Valley.

Maybe not extensive dairy farming, but fdefinitely some degree of farming and potential run off.

Greater Wellington apparently did a survey of Mangaroa Valley in particular when toxic algae became first became a recognised issue. I don't believe they found a significant degree of non compliance.....I'm not sure how hard they went to the letter of the law though.

I think pollution control is quite a culture shock for a lot of NZ farmers to get their heads around. "But I've been doing it this way for years !!"

Agreed - I lived up towards to summit of the Akatarawas and was above most of the farms. Water there was never an issue, and seemed very clean. I now live in Whitemans valley and the rivers through Mangaroa and whitemans are not in a brilliant state at the moment. My dogs can't really swim there either. I am longing for the Akatarawa River again that I never did take for granted. I do not know enough about it to comment on whether dairy farms have anything to do with this, but the Algae there is still a problem out my way now, and the further south you go down the river, the bigger the problem seems to be. (through to Petone). It is seasonal though of course. I should really do some more research and learn more about it as it is an issue that tends to frustrate me with my fur babies. A friend of mine lost her dog last year because of being at the river, I hope I never have to go through that myself.

[rainman]

Wondering if anyone can point me in the direction of some hard evidence re dairy farmers and the state of the rivers...

Get hold of Russell Norman from the Greens, he's been a one-man campaign against this stuff for ages and is bound to have lots of facts, figures and contacts.

I guess we are now just coming to accept thats how it is. Although it wasn't many years ago that this problem wasn't as frequent. Mmmm who knows. It is hard to not question what we can do about it.

What to do is easy. How to do it, well, that's a different matter.

Sure dairy is a huge export winner but one would think the farmers themselves would want to be responsible for their environment, polluted run off is going to cost in the future surely.

I have a great deal of sympathy for he farmers (believe it or not) but run off probably won't cost THEM in the future. (Besides, they aren't currently making enough to pay the full cost). Since when do we price in the externalities associated with our activities? We don't, and frankly I can't see we ever will.

Fixing this requires major economic overhaul that most barely understand, let alone would support. Fixing it properly (reducing stocking levels, going organic, etc) would instantly lose our edge in global dairy. And you think the price of milk is bad now? There would have to be a major knock on effect on the wage share of overall wealth, or we would have a large increase in hardship that would ripple through the entire economy.
Far easier to ignore reality and keep on trucking towards collapse.

Crapping in our own nest is but one price of globalisation, which is the ultimate race to the bottom, in service of the very "top". Truly, as a species, we have gone mad.

[george formby]

Crapping in our own nest is but one price of globalisation, which is the ultimate race to the bottom, in service of the very "top".

Sounds like another way of saying the wealthy get the profits while the poor pay the costs.

I have noticed a few things on the box which have shown dairy farmers restoring bush & trees along water courses on their land, to act as filters to pasture run off, prevent cattle entering & fouling streams & minimising erosion. Perhaps legislation which makes this mandatory for farmers / land owners would make this a relatively cheap fix. Plant more trees!

[rainman]

Sounds like another way of saying the wealthy get the profits while the poor pay the costs.

You're on to it.

I have noticed a few things on the box which have shown dairy farmers restoring bush & trees along water courses on their land, to act as filters to pasture run off, prevent cattle entering & fouling streams & minimising erosion. Perhaps legislation which makes this mandatory for farmers / land owners would make this a relatively cheap fix. Plant more trees!

More Trees = Always good advice - however I suspect the problem is less from cows crapping in or near streams and more from excess nutrient runoff from fertilisers. Think of the GOM dead zone, that can't just be cow crap. Trees can help soak up fertiliser but you'd need a ferking forest along each side of the river to make a real difference.

And there would not be many farmers who aren't using as much input as possible to maximise yield and not a smidgen more - increased fertiliser after the optimum point increases costs and drops yields - so cutting fertiliser use will cut yields, which will drive farmers to the wall, given present tight conditions for many farming operations. So it ain't gonna happen, unless we make huge changes to the way we structure and operate our economy.

[98tls]

You're on to it.



More Trees = Always good advice - however I suspect the problem is less from cows crapping in or near streams and more from excess nutrient runoff from fertilisers. Think of the GOM dead zone, that can't just be cow crap. Trees can help soak up fertiliser but you'd need a ferking forest along each side of the river to make a real difference.

And there would not be many farmers who aren't using as much input as possible to maximise yield and not a smidgen more - increased fertiliser after the optimum point increases costs and drops yields - so cutting fertiliser use will cut yields, which will drive farmers to the wall, given present tight conditions for many farming operations. So it ain't gonna happen, unless we make huge changes to the way we structure and operate our economy.

Simply put as you say,it aint gonna happen,went to the council offices this afternoon and the bloke i wanted to talk to was away so will try again next week.Sounds like the best i can hope for is to get them to at least put up signs warning people.Bloody shame,more and more it seems the most basic of pleasures and reasons i love this country are put off limits for one reason or another.Shouldnt really be surprised i guess.

[Deano]

Simply put as you say,it aint gonna happen,went to the council offices this afternoon and the bloke i wanted to talk to was away so will try again next week.Sounds like the best i can hope for is to get them to at least put up signs warning people.Bloody shame,more and more it seems the most basic of pleasures and reasons i love this country are put off limits for one reason or another.Shouldnt really be surprised i guess.

Was it the Regional Council Pollution Dept ? If you lay a complaint I believe that they are obliged to investigate. If not, there are various options available - MP, Ombudsmen Office. They should at least justify their actions or inactions - they are public servants !!

[mashman]

More Trees = Always good advice - however I suspect the problem is less from cows crapping in or near streams and more from excess nutrient runoff from fertilisers. Think of the GOM dead zone, that can't just be cow crap. Trees can help soak up fertiliser but you'd need a ferking forest along each side of the river to make a real difference.

And there would not be many farmers who aren't using as much input as possible to maximise yield and not a smidgen more - increased fertiliser after the optimum point increases costs and drops yields - so cutting fertiliser use will cut yields, which will drive farmers to the wall, given present tight conditions for many farming operations. So it ain't gonna happen, unless we make huge changes to the way we structure and operate our economy.

bang on. I agree on the restructure of the economy to provide sustainability and stop "over" farming... but who's willing to sacrifice short term gain for sustainability? Private enterprise maybe, although you'll need to get approval from that faceless twat on a golf course somewhere in the bahamas, errrrrrm, probably not... perhaps the okey cokey govt, you've got yer 3 years in, yer 3 years out, in out in out, oo be doo be doo, who the feck am I kidding... Or option C MYYYYYYYYYYYYY WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY (not just my way, but ya know what i mean, more beer nurse )

[hayd3n]

i have a good friend who works at the dcc treatment station who could run a test for ya :P

[george formby]

Clean, green New Zealand.

The only thing this wee nation has is it's land & water. Funnily enough our much discussed friend Hone Harawira was bang on when he said to his party (IIRC) "we are nothing without water" I cannot remember the context but degradation from farming rings a bell.

[98tls]

i have a good friend who works at the dcc treatment station who could run a test for ya :P

Might just take you up on that H,wonder if i could take a few samples and courier them down to you.

[Deano]

Funnily enough our much discussed friend Hone Harawira was bang on when he said to his party (IIRC) "we are nothing without water"

True - there would be no beer without water.

[Skyryder]

This may be of interest. I have not read this but as a fisherman there is no doubt in my mind that the 'Canterbury' rivers have been in a state of decline for many years.

The cause is river abstraction (irrigation) and polution (dairy).


http://www.niwa.co.nz/our-science/freshwater/tools/rec Some links do not work. A better link.

http://www.niwa.co.nz/news-and-publi...ly-2010/rivers

Skyryder

[Deano]

Might just take you up on that H,wonder if i could take a few samples and courier them down to you.

If it is indeed toxic algae, you may not actually detect it by sampling the water. Its the ingestion of algae itself that is the main issue (dogs love eating smelly, slimey shit eh).

A test might be a useful indicator if carried out appropriately, but it won't be official will it ? No offence but treatment station water tests use quite different protocols.

I still recommend laying a complaint with the Regional Council in the first instance.

Has the Vet given you any indication of cause ? Any blackish slimy discharge from your dogs mouth ? (Common with algae ingestion )

[98tls]

This may be of interest. I have not read this but as a fisherman there is no doubt in my mind that the 'Canterbury' rivers have been in a state of decline for many years.

The cause is river abstraction (irrigation) and polution (dairy).


http://www.niwa.co.nz/our-science/freshwater/tools/rec

Skyryder

Cheers mate and yes i hadnt even thought of irrigation.