Help needed: Why a high-viz vest might not work

[p.dath]

I'm writing a proposal to try and get some research done. In part of my proposal I need to list reasons why a high-viz vest might not work. Note that I am not interested in weather the vests work or not.

Below is what I have so far. Anyone have any other ideas that I should consider?

• Inattentional blindess. Made famous by the “invisible gorilla” experiment, it basically found that you can’t see things you are not expecting to see. So if this principle applied then if a car driver isn’t expecting to see a motorcyclist they simply won’t. No matter what they are wearing.
• Threat detection. This hypothesis is based around the concept that car drivers brains are less likely to process the presence of a motorcyclist because their brain does not perceive a motorcyclist as a threat as it is a smaller object.
• Fixed cognitive ability. The human brain has a fixed cognitive capability. If the car drivers cognitive ability is being consumed on other activities such as stress, children, work, road works, road signage, sun strike, a child on the side of the road, etc, then they simply have less cognitive function left to be able to process other objects on the road like motorcylists.

[bogan]

motion camouflage, motorcyclist appears to be in a fixed position relative to the background, so is not recognised as a moving object.

[Usarka]

• Inattentional blindess. Made famous by the “invisible gorilla” experiment, it basically found that you can’t see things you are not expecting to see. So if this principle applied then if a car driver isn’t expecting to see a motorcyclist they simply won’t. No matter what they are wearing.
• Threat detection. This hypothesis is based around the concept that car drivers brains are less likely to process the presence of a motorcyclist because their brain does not perceive a motorcyclist as a threat as it is a smaller object.
• Fixed cognitive ability. The human brain has a fixed cognitive capability. If the car drivers cognitive ability is being consumed on other activities such as stress, children, work, road works, road signage, sun strike, a child on the side of the road, etc, then they simply have less cognitive function left to be able to process other objects on the road like motorcylists.

Seriously dude, none of those are reasons why high vis wouldn't work. In all your examples one could easily argue that high vis would be better than no high vis, and very hard to argue the opposite.

Maybe your question should be why don't car drivers see motorcycles, and then focus on the most significant causes.

[Smifffy]

I'm writing a proposal to try and get some research done. In part of my proposal I need to list reasons why a high-viz vest might not work. Note that I am not interested in weather the vests work or not.

Below is what I have so far. Anyone have any other ideas that I should consider?

Further to your second point, a hi-vis wearing rider is perceived as less of a threat than a couple of dudes all in black.

[Nasty]

The question is really what is it they are saying that "hi vis" works.

it gives little opportunity to do anything let alone work.

if you know what they are saying that makes it work that gives a starting point to refute their arguments.

[p.dath]

Seriously dude, none of those are reasons why high vis wouldn't work. In all your examples one could easily argue that high vis would be better than no high vis, and very hard to argue the opposite.

I already have reasons why it might work. I am only looking for reasons why it might not work.

Maybe your question should be why don't car drivers see motorcycles, and then focus on the most significant causes.

Way ahead of you. As I said, I only need help with this one little bit.

[Neon]

one could easily argue that high vis would be better than no high vis, and very hard to argue the opposite.

This is why we will eventually get compulsory hi-viz. It does not matter whether hi-viz actually improves visibility or helps prevent accidents, or does nothing at all. One would need to prove that it is in fact detrimental to the safety of the motorcyclist to counter this common perception.

As much as I don't like hi-viz, and as much as I'll argue that it does nothing to improve safety, I'm not sure it's possible to construct a valid argument that hi-viz makes matters worse. There might not even be one.

Unfortunately because they are basically costless, easily enforced and are visible 'runs on the board' for those whose performance is measured on such things, hi-viz are probably an inevitability.

And in three years time we'll be laughing at the posts titled 'cop gave me ticket cos my hi-viz isn't hi-viz enough', and shaking our heads at the folly of implementing a safety garment that fades after six months with normal use.

[Neon]

One argument could be that implementing a hi-viz policy could be detrimental to motorcycle safety if it compromises funding for other initiatives, presents issues with enforcement such as those mentioned regarding fading of the fluorescent dye (or accumulation of dirt), or there was some compelling research that concluded that bright colours induce motion camouflage more readily.

Vests prevent jacket ventilation from working efficiently, introduce distracting vibration at highway speeds (flapping), and could (this is pushing it a bit) affect the performance of jacket abrasion panels in an accident...

You could take the approach of arguing that by the same logic black and grey coloured cars should be banned, and cyclists should also be required to wear hi-viz.

[cromagnon]

A distraction to the rider, the high vis is usually much larger in size as it is over the top of normal gear and flaps around in the wind.

[ajturbo]

implementing a safety garment that fades after six months with normal use.

lucky you put "normal use".... i have to wear one for work.. i have work in this new job for near 3 months... washing it once a week (cause it smells by then)
it is fucked

[Neon]

A distraction to the rider, the high vis is usually much larger in size as it is over the top of normal gear and flaps around in the wind.

Even when they fit properly they still vibrate/flap, and it is very distracting.

[Jantar]

I was quite suprised at the number of riders on the Southern Cross who were wearing Hi Vis. The interesting thing was that when following behind them the Hi vis really stood out, but when in front of them, it was the headlight that was noticeable, and the Hi Vis couldn't really be seen.

Remember also that as motorcyclists we were all looking for other motorcyclists. What this showed was that Hi Vis stands out when you are expecting to see something, but dosen't stand out if you aren't expecting to see it.

I don't think anyone can claim that Hi Vis reduces safety, but also I don't believe that it increases safety for motorcyclists either.

[BMWST?]

there are to many hi viz wearers now.....it will get to the point soon that you blend into the hi viz background.....then it will be tha e same argument about why cars should not have their headlights on in the day time....motorcyclists will become invisible

[KiWiP]

Because some people are dicks and pull in front of things the shouldn't e.g. bikes, cars, trucks, trains.

Don't suppose this helps but it makes me feel better

I don't wear hiviz because I don't believe it works to attract attention to you. When I was knocked off I was wearing hiviz and it didn't help.

In your research you might look at road workers getting struck and police motorcycles with high viz bikes they still get people pulling out in front of them

p.s. good thing to study

[Berries]

Anyone have any other ideas that I should consider?

The three you have listed all relate to the other road user. What about the rider? Does their behaviour/attitude change when they are wearing hi-viz because they unconsciously believe that they are highly visible? Are they likely to be involved in more car vs bike crashes? Not the kind of thing you can use a simulator for, but an interesting study all the same.

Still, if they decide we are having them we are having them, although I would be surprised if cyclists weren't targeted first.

EDIT. Although it could be seen as clutching at straws (which I think you are anyway on this topic), you could use colour blindness as well. I could see bright yellow jackets when people on the road used them. Now they are fluoro orange they blend in with the trees and everything else. Extremely low-viz in fact.