Climate change or global warming and who did it?

[Pwalo]

Are the climate 'scentists' given up?

Sounds like surrender to me. Perhaps for this subject they could change everything for anything

Doesn't this sound like the snakeoil salesman

Panic NOW! We don't know why but please PANIC and do stupid things. Society must be killed to save society.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4834...ngs-on-climate

Oh love the headline to, of course they do its what the frigging conference is about and their excuse to spend the money on it.

Yes that was probably the most whiny,pathetic press release I've had the pleasure of reading for some time. Please be REALLY scared, and don't ask us too may questions.

Still at least even the Dim Post buried it in the middle pages.

[Spearfish]

at least 10 characters.

[puddytat]

Being that I am a halfwit....
Seems somewhat commonsensicle to have a foot in both camps to me.
A bit like the Yin/Yang concept, though based on a Religous theory it works like the scientifically proven oposites attract,for every action is a reaction kinda thing,cause & effect like.
Pass the cucumber...

'Tis somewhat of a shame that something as important as this subject ends up another "Us & Them" thing
As for Scientists & Theologists, well they're going to say pretty much whatever the hands that paying them tells them to.....
Look around folk...its turning to custard & we will all have to pay for "it" one way or another....

[mashman]

I found this an interesting read... the comments are definately worth a read and they're fookin long but relatively easy to follow. It does sort of confirm that we've gone about as far as we can and that there are several potential theories for just about every element of climate change trigger/causation... Either way there seems to be enough doubt that I'm not surprised noone wants to do anything about it. Too many people clinging on to the idea that it'll not happen in our lifetime? Or does someone know something we don't?

[Jantar]

I found this an interesting read... the comments are definately worth a read and they're fookin long but relatively easy to follow. It does sort of confirm that we've gone about as far as we can and that there are several potential theories for just about every element of climate change trigger/causation... Either way there seems to be enough doubt that I'm not surprised noone wants to do anything about it. Too many people clinging on to the idea that it'll not happen in our lifetime? Or does someone know something we don't?

I note this statement from that link

The process takes around 800 to 1000 years, so CO2 levels are observed to rise around 1000 years after the initial warming (Monnin 2001, Mudelsee 2001).

Interesting that 800 - 1000 years ago was the medievil Warming Period. Now we are seeing CO2 rising, so where's the mystery?

[mashman]

I note this statement from that link

Interesting that 800 - 1000 years ago was the medievil Warming Period. Now we are seeing CO2 rising, so where's the mystery?

Dunno. I assume that if they understand how this cycle works, or why, then they'd be able to measure "our" effect on climate change. Like you say, if it's a known cycle, where's the mystery.

[Edbear]

Dunno. I assume that if they understand how this cycle works, or why, then they'd be able to measure "our" effect on climate change. Like you say, if it's a known cycle, where's the mystery.

I don't think anyone now doubts that climate change is occurring despite ongoing arguments about global warming. Whatever the actual case, what is beyond question is that Man is steadily and fairly quickly destroying the environment faster than it can recover. Scientists studying the oceans and the Earth are telling us we have between 30 -50 years until we're killed off the oceans and they are effectively dead. They are telling us that the the groundwaters, aquifers, are sinking and becoming so polluted that there will be wars fought over water, not oil, as fresh water becomes in critical supply.

This is the real crisis no-one is keen to talk about...

[mashman]

I don't think anyone now doubts that climate change is occurring despite ongoing arguments about global warming. Whatever the actual case, what is beyond question is that Man is steadily and fairly quickly destroying the environment faster than it can recover. Scientists studying the oceans and the Earth are telling us we have between 30 -50 years until we're killed off the oceans and they are effectively dead. They are telling us that the the groundwaters, aquifers, are sinking and becoming so polluted that there will be wars fought over water, not oil, as fresh water becomes in critical supply.

This is the real crisis no-one is keen to talk about...

They've been saying 30 - 50 years since I was a kid and still haven't done anything about it. If the poles melt then the sea dies anyway (according to the scientists) and by the sounds of things that's a natural occurrence. All that melt water going to waste . Gawd i wish something catastrophic would happen.

[Jantar]

.... Whatever the actual case, what is beyond question is that Man is steadily and fairly quickly destroying the environment faster than it can recover. ...

This is the real crisis no-one is keen to talk about...

Yes, pollution is a real issue that we should be dealing with, but this has absolutely nothing to do with climate change. Its a totally different subject. One is man made and the other is Mann made.

[Edbear]

This is the sort of thing that should be being shouted from the rooftops!

http://www.fisherycrisis.com/

http://www.uga.edu/gm/1202/FeatDeep.html

[shrub]

This is the sort of thing that should be being shouted from the rooftops!

http://www.fisherycrisis.com/

http://www.uga.edu/gm/1202/FeatDeep.html

It's the tip of the iceberg (no pun intended). Climate change is probably the biggest problem we have from the way we have exhausted our resources, but it's not the only one and probably won't be the first to bite us in the arse.

[puddytat]

The only thing they seem keen on is the Emissions Trading Scheme.....FFS its as big a scam as the one thats caused the recession & as a Forest owner its the reason why I will never by into a Futures trading scam.
I will plant more trees only 'cause I luvs ya all

I now quote "Straight Furrow" April 5th...(cause its faster than link it on dial up)
"As an example,if a 100ha pre 1990 pine forest in the BOP region burns down at age 35 & deforestation occurs due to lackof new growth the landowner will have to pay MAF 87,000 carbon units. If the carbon price was $25 per unit this would cost the landowner $2,190,000.
Given that the landoner is unlikely to be able to pay; it is yet to be seen whether the Govt in that case would bankrupt the landowner.
The ETS ups the stakes for events such as fire, disease, or wind blow because previously the landowner only risked losing the forest; now the landowner risks losing all other assets held in the same entity,which normally includes the rest of the farm & family home among other things"

He (Charles Rau) goes onto say that landowners are advised to seek professional assistance.....so pay out even more for lawyers, accountants etc.
What a freakin' nightmare.
If our survival depends on the cost,well we already know what the outcome'll be.

[Winston001]

I agree Puddytat, that's ludicrous. I can't find the Straight Furrow article online but have found accountant Charles Raus article in the Gisborne Herald http://www.gisborneherald.co.nz/article/?id=21178

Incidentally its nice to see Straight Furrow mentioned. It was standard reading at home when I were a lad and I still browse it occasionally.

[Jantar]

How about we all stop using any fossil fuel or anything else that emits CO2 and reduce the earth's temperature to 0.0015 C cooler than it would otherwise have been by 2050.

That means no transport of any sort other than walk or unshod horse. No electricity, and no cooking other than on wood fires. No new houses or any other sort of building either.

http://opinion.financialpost.com/201...odels-go-cold/

[puddytat]

Gets my vote....certainly would cut down on all kinds of compliance costs for a start
You forgot bicycles.