Climate change or global warming and who did it?

[mashman]

So how does paying tax like we do now help or change anything?

it helps them to know that they've still got us by the balls and that they don't have to change a thing

but i'd like to know the answer to that too

[Jantar]

NIWA - Lauder station. The guys collecting the data.

NIWA at Lauder does not collect climate data. It is an upper atmosmosphere research station. I have at times had some interesting discussions with Dr Richard McKenzie, the head scientists at Lauder, over this same issue. May I suggest that you ask you technician friends (probably the same ones I know) just what the rate of warming has been over the past 15 years, and which data set they are using for that response.

[Spearfish]

Does anyone know the final resting place of this tax money?
Who gets it, and what is it used for?

Or is NZ just doing it to look like we are doing something to protect our global market share?

[rainman]

So how does paying tax like we do now help or change anything?

We currently pay a "hidden tax" to the oil co's ad other filthy industries by subsidising most of the environmental and social costs of their activities. If they paid their externalities I'd be happy for them to do whatever they want to, but it's all private gain, public cost....

[avgas]

NIWA, the same lot being sued for inaccuracies & data manipulation?

Yeap.....the same ones whom thought it was a good idea to put the weather station next to the AC heat extraction unit on the roof of the head office.

They have evidence that global warming was in effect between 7am and 7pm, Monday to Friday.........

I wish I was kidding about this.

[Jantar]

.....
>>
>> Okay, here's the bombshell. The volcanic eruption in Iceland, since
its
>> first spewing of volcanic ash has, in just FOUR DAYS, NEGATED EVERY
>> SINGLE EFFORT you have made in the past five years to control CO2
>> emissions on our planet - yes, that's what I said......all of you......

I have seen this before. I'm glad you mentioned "accuracy unknown" because it is far from accurate. What was closer was that the drop in emmissions from grounding all the aircraft almost exactly matched the CO2 put out from that (impossible to pronounce) volcano.

Unfortunately, having inaccurate information like this being used as an argument against the AGW scaremongers just strengthens their case and weakens the science.

Ok, I've found the data.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

The volcano spewed between 0.15 an 0.3 MT of CO2 per day. The aviation industry reduced its usage by 0.2 MT per day due to flights being cancelled.

[Jantar]

NIWA, the same lot being sued for inaccuracies & data manipulation?

The court case is over. NIWA conceeded that their Seven Station Series was not an accurate representation of NZs temperature record. They have established a new Seven Station Series that has been reviewed by the Auastralian BoM. The new series still shows nearly 0.9 degrees of warming in New Zealand over 120 years, but most of it was in the early years, and there is almost no warming since 1955. (Despite it including the business day warming recorded at Kelburn).

[puddytat]

Climate change or Global warming & who did it?
Great question there Ed & nothing against you raising it as you strike me as being one of a very few who are worried by it(& rightfully so)but, does it really matter who or what is causing it?
By continuing to split hairs & listening to the sound of ideologies clashing is just wasting precious time me thinks, in getting down to the job at hand of saving this Blue sphere we call home.
One fact that we cant deny is that we are the only thing on the place intelligent enough to do anything about it.....
Another is that we are dumb enough to fuck it also...
What a waste of 40000 generations to get to the point in our species evolution where we can finally use our intelligence to manipulate our ecosystem & its species so that we may not be decimated by things we can or cannot,control.
DOH!!! And all we worry about is the fucking cost!!
Sometimes I feel we really dont deserve it. We may end up a failed experiment in a used up petri dish, in the trash can of history.

[dipshit]

Sometimes I feel we really dont deserve it. We may end up a failed experiment in a used up petri dish, in the trash can of history.

Quite true. And the universe won't give a fuck.

[Jantar]

...One fact that we cant deny is that we are the only thing on the place intelligent enough to do anything about it..........

Are we? And even if we are, why should we?

If we can't accurately determine the cause of a change, how can we claim to be intelligent enough to do anything about it?

Then when it comes to climate change, the majority of recent resesrch shows that a warmer climate is good for the planet, while a cooler climate is detrimental. Have a look at http://www.worldclimatereport.com/in...d-we-cause-it/

[Smifffy]

[Edbear]

Climate change or Global warming & who did it?
Great question there Ed & nothing against you raising it as you strike me as being one of a very few who are worried by it(& rightfully so)but, does it really matter who or what is causing it?
By continuing to split hairs & listening to the sound of ideologies clashing is just wasting precious time me thinks, in getting down to the job at hand of saving this Blue sphere we call home.
One fact that we cant deny is that we are the only thing on the place intelligent enough to do anything about it.....
Another is that we are dumb enough to fuck it also...
What a waste of 40000 generations to get to the point in our species evolution where we can finally use our intelligence to manipulate our ecosystem & its species so that we may not be decimated by things we can or cannot,control.
DOH!!! And all we worry about is the fucking cost!!
Sometimes I feel we really dont deserve it. We may end up a failed experiment in a used up petri dish, in the trash can of history.

Good post mate! How much is being done by who or what is immaterial, really, the fact is the environment, and by that I include the atmosphere, is being degraded to mankind's detriment. How much we can influence climate change is really out of our hands as I suspect the answer is, "Not much."

What is beyond question though, is the fact that Man is stuffing up his environment faster than it can recover with pollution and raping of land and sea to the point that scientists are now giving us between 30-50 years to possible extinction as a species!

[Woodman]

scientists are now giving us between 30-50 years to possible extinction as a species!

cool, what a rush.

[Winston001]

problem with science is it is right (or so they say) until they are wrong.

Which happens all the time.

earth is flat.
earth is x years old. (the age of the earth is constantly changing)
size of the universe
age of the universe

WRONG

But I understand what you are saying.

The fact is that scientific discovery is a continual refinement of previous knowledge. Yes there have been dramatic changes but mostly centuries ago. Even in Christopher Columbus's day they knew the Earth was round which was why he thought he'd reached India = Red Indians. Pity they don't teach the facts at school.

Scientific opinion is that the planet is warming. What is not so clear is whether humans are causing it - and if we aren't, why have carbon taxes?

The answer is that we are polluting our environment and running out of oil/coal/gas. Carbon taxes make us look at other ways of obtaining energy - ways which are non-polluting.

[mashman]

[SIZE=5]Carbon taxes make us look at other ways of obtaining energy - ways which are non-polluting.

Carbon taxes aren't passed on to the end user then? Because if they are, then there's no incentive to cut emissions... just carry on til it runs out. Tis someone elses problem then .