Climate change or global warming and who did it?

[Scuba_Steve]

It does make good reading, but unfortuantely is not correct. I have posted the correct data previously (I think it was this thread but may have been an earlier global warming one). From memory, and without going back and looking for my other post on it, the amount of CO2 was in the order of 300 MT which is about the amount of fuel used by aircraft in europe in one week.

I do like tho how before the volcano it was all "if a volcano goes off it spits out more CO2 than the world would in a year or 10" (or something to that degree anyways) yet afterwards its "oh na it doesn't spit out that much, less than a plane or SUV".

But don't worry people I've been driving round a vehicle thats chewing up gas & pumping out smoke, just doing my part to help make the world a warmer place

[shrub]

It does make good reading, but unfortuantely is not correct. I have posted the correct data previously (I think it was this thread but may have been an earlier global warming one). From memory, and without going back and looking for my other post on it, the amount of CO2 was in the order of 300 MT which is about the amount of fuel used by aircraft in europe in one week.

A lot of rubbish like that circulates and people take it seriously and believe it because they want to believe it because believing the alternative view means they might need to make some changes to their lifestyle. The PR companies working for the deniers have done well - circulating half truths and distortions of the truth that sound credible and fit the belief needs of their audience. They aren't subject to the same criteria that the scientific community are, so their work doesn't get checked and double checked before it gets released.

It reminds me of an argument put forward by the tobacco industry that cigarettes were good for your lungs because they encouraged coughing which in turn helped clean toxins from your lungs.

[Jantar]

A lot of rubbish like that circulates and people take it seriously and believe it because they want to believe it because believing the alternative view means they might need to make some changes to their lifestyle. .

Exactly. A perfect example of this in action is:

The PR companies working for the deniers have done well - circulating half truths and distortions of the truth that sound credible and fit the belief needs of their audience. .....

Who are these deniers? What do they deny? And please, please, name one of these PR companies and give an example of their work.

[puddytat]

Man theres so many self righteous,self serving & self centered cunts in the world.....
No wonder we're fucked.

[Winston001]

al

Man theres so many self righteous,self serving & self centered cunts in the world.....
No wonder we're fucked.

True but they tend to be sports idols, music mavens, pretty boy/girl actors, and Donald Trump.



The one group that isn't dishonest or egotistical are scientists.

[Woodman]

like I have said before we need terrorists, proper terrorists that are willing to kill the polluters and the decision makers that support the polluters, and the distibutors of the polluters products.

An offshoot of their terrorism will be the lowering of the population which will be a bonus.

I see no other way, as there are too many hands in the cookie jar to actually make a decision to do something about it.

Sometimes we just gotta get into a fight.

[Woodman]

The one group that isn't dishonest or egotistical are scientists.

Depends who is paying the scientists.

Depends on what information they choose to release.

[mashman]

Are you sitting down?
Okay, here's the bombshell. The volcanic eruption in Iceland, since its first spewing of volcanic ash has, in just FOUR DAYS, NEGATED EVERY SINGLE EFFORT you have made in the past five years to control CO2 emissions on our planet – all of you.

Of course you know about this evil carbon dioxide that we are trying to suppress – it’s that vital chemical compound that every plant requires to live and grow, and to synthesize into oxygen for us humans, and all animal life.



I know, it's very disheartening to realize that all of the carbon emission savings you have accomplished while suffering the inconvenience and expense of: driving Priushybrids, buying fabric grocery bags, sitting up till midnight to finish your kid's "The Green Revolution" science project, throwing out all of your non-green cleaning supplies, using only two squares of toilet paper, putting a brick in your toilet tank reservoir, selling your SUV and speedboat, vacationing at home instead of abroad, nearly getting hit every day on your bicycle, replacing all of your 50 cent light bulbs with $10.00 light bulbs...well, all of those things you have done have all gone down the tubes in just four days.



The volcanic ash emitted into the Earth's atmosphere in just four days - yes - FOUR DAYS ONLY by that volcano in Iceland, has totally erased every single effort you have made to reduce the evil beast, carbon. And there are around 200 active volcanoes on the planet spewing out this crud any one time - EVERY DAY.



I don't really want to rain on your parade too much, but I should mention that when the volcano Mt Pinatubo erupted in the Philippines in 1991, it spewed out more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere than the entire human race had emitted in its entire YEARS on earth. Yes folks, Mt Pinatubo was active for over one year – think about it.



Of course I shouldn't spoil this touchy-feely tree-hugging moment and mention the effect of solar and cosmic activity and the well-recognized 800-year global heating and cooling cycle, which keeps happening, despite our completely insignificant efforts to affect climate change.



And I do wish I had a silver lining to this volcanic ash cloud but the fact of the matter is that the brush fire season across the western USA and Australia this year alone will negate your efforts to reduce carbon in our world for the next two to three years. And it happens every year.



Just remember that your government just tried to impose a whopping new carbon tax on you on the basis of the bogus “human-caused” climate change scenario.



Hey, isn’t it interesting how they don’t mention “Global Warming” any more, but just “Climate Change” - you know why? It’s because the planet has COOLED by 0.7 degrees in the past century and these global warming bull artists got caught with their pants down.



And just keep in mind that you might yet have an Emissions Trading Scheme – that whopping new tax – imposed on you, that will achieve absolutely nothing except make you poorer. It won’t stop any volcanoes from erupting, that’s for sure.



But hey, relax, give the world a hug and have a nice day!



PS: I wonder if Iceland is buying carbon offsets?

like the one in Chile that's supposedly going to affect NZ airspace....

[puddytat]

like I have said before we need terrorists, proper terrorists that are willing to kill the polluters and the decision makers that support the polluters, and the distibutors of the polluters products.

An offshoot of their terrorism will be the lowering of the population which will be a bonus.

I see no other way, as there are too many hands in the cookie jar to actually make a decision to do something about it.

Sometimes we just gotta get into a fight.

This is something I've often wondered......why hav'nt there been targeted attacks against the Evil Empire or why hasnt there been a more direct action squad raise its head somewhere?No good smashing some town up when the G8 or whatever are in town.....
Ive already got a list prepared.....
But...we wont go into that here, as Waihopai is still operational

[Edbear]

This is something I've often wondered......why hav'nt there been targeted attacks against the Evil Empire or why hasnt there been a more direct action squad raise its head somewhere?No good smashing some town up when the G8 or whatever are in town.....
Ive already got a list prepared.....
But...we wont go into that here, as Waihopai is still operational

Because consumers don't want to stop consuming and don't want to work to produce the basics of life. They want to buy them and have someone else clean up after them. Far too busy trying to earn enough money to pay the bills and buy some toys. No time or energy left to change their whole way of life.

As people become more prosperous, ie: China for example, the demand for consumer goods and a higher standard of living grows exponentially and places ever increasing demands on producers and the environment.

[Oakie]

It does make good reading, but unfortuantely is not correct. I have posted the correct data previously (I think it was this thread but may have been an earlier global warming one). From memory, and without going back and looking for my other post on it, the amount of CO2 was in the order of 300 MT which is about the amount of fuel used by aircraft in europe in one week.

I received that e-mail last week. No actual figures quoted so I did my own research. It came to 200 to 300 million tonnes by volcano (depending on the expert used) while fossil fuels weighed in at 23 billion tonnes. Roughly then, fossil fuels account for 100 times more that volcanos.

[Jantar]

..... It came to 200 to 300 million tonnes by volcano (depending on the expert used) while fossil fuels weighed in at 23 billion tonnes. Roughly then, fossil fuels account for 100 times more that volcanos.

Remember that there are around 80 - 100 volcanos active at any one time and generally at least 2 major volcanos erupting at any one time, with more than 100 major eruption per year, hence volcanos do emit more CO2 than do humans.

There are currently 4 major eruptions in progress, but we only hear about one because it disrupts air travel. How about Nabro in Ethiopia, or Kizimen on the Kamchatka Peninsula, or here http://www.volcano.si.edu/reports/usgs/ just look for yourself.

[Maki]

Remember that there are around 80 - 100 volcanos active at any one time and generally at least 2 major volcanos erupting at any one time, with more than 100 major eruption per year, hence volcanos do emit more CO2 than do humans.

There are currently 4 major eruptions in progress, but we only hear about one because it disrupts air travel. How about Nabro in Ethiopia, or Kizimen on the Kamchatka Peninsula, or here http://www.volcano.si.edu/reports/usgs/ just look for yourself.

I am not going to tell you what I think about your deductive powers since I have nothing compassionate to say about them...

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http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/volcanowatch/2007/07_02_15.html

"Our studies show that globally, volcanoes on land and under the sea release a total of about 200 million tonnes of CO2 annually."

"This seems like a huge amount of CO2, but a visit to the U.S. Department of Energy's Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center (CDIAC) website (http://cdiac.ornl.gov/) helps anyone armed with a handheld calculator and a high school chemistry text put the volcanic CO2 tally into perspective. Because while 200 million tonnes of CO2 is large, the global fossil fuel CO2 emissions for 2003 tipped the scales at 26.8 billion tonnes. Thus, not only does volcanic CO2 not dwarf that of human activity, it actually comprises less than 1 percent of that value."

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In your own mind I am sure, Jantar that you know far more than the USGS could ever hope to know, and that is just fine...

[Jantar]

I am not going to tell you what I think about your deductive powers since I have nothing compassionate to say about them...

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http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/volcanowatch/2007/07_02_15.html

"Our studies show that globally, volcanoes on land and under the sea release a total of about 200 million tonnes of CO2 annually."

"This seems like a huge amount of CO2, but a visit to the U.S. Department of Energy's Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center (CDIAC) website (http://cdiac.ornl.gov/) helps anyone armed with a handheld calculator and a high school chemistry text put the volcanic CO2 tally into perspective. Because while 200 million tonnes of CO2 is large, the global fossil fuel CO2 emissions for 2003 tipped the scales at 26.8 billion tonnes. Thus, not only does volcanic CO2 not dwarf that of human activity, it actually comprises less than 1 percent of that value."

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In your own mind I am sure, Jantar that you know far more than the USGS could ever hope to know, and that is just fine...

Perhaps you should re-read what I wrote. I was working from memory, and after reading your outburst I went and found the origional quote based on the Eyjafloell eruption which lasted for 10 days.

Iceland's Eyjafjoell volcano is emitting between 150,000 and 300,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide (CO2) per day, a figure placing it in the same emissions league as a small-to-medium European economy, experts said on Monday.

I was out by a factor of 100. It was 300 KT per day per volcano which equates to 3 MT, not 300 MT, so on that basis it is likely man does pump more CO2 into the atmosphere than do known volcanos. We do not know how much more because volcanic emmissions are only ever an estimate and could be out by an order of magnitude either way.

[Winston001]

I was out by a factor of 100. It was 300 KT per day per volcano which equates to 3 MT, not 300 MT, so on that basis it is likely man does pump more CO2 into the atmosphere than do known volcanos. We do not know how much more because volcanic emmissions are only ever an estimate and could be out by an order of magnitude either way.

There's not much to debate Jantar. Most carbon released into the environment comes from natural sources including volcanoes. Climate scientists know this. The human addition is about 4% which sounds insignificant but compounded over 150 years adds up to a lot extra.

As we've discussed many times before, carbon is simply the easiest symptom of human influence on the environment to track. And importantly for the public to understand.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that pollution from complex organics and heavy metals are the real problem. Nevertheless these flow directly from carbon based demands ergo reduce carbon = other types of pollution fall.