Climate change or global warming and who did it?

[shrub]

No-one said imaginary


Umm company B has higher setup or re-setup costs so has to charge more because of that & even if we pretend they didn't since company A sells at a higher price (because they have to) company B will also sell at a similar price to maximize profits end result, nothing changes, consumers pay more

... And people actually pay you to tell them about business???

Jesus wept, why do I waste my time? It's not that simple, if you're starting from scratch, clean technology typically costs between -2% (cheaper) and + 12% (more expensive), depending on the industry and technology. However the ongoing operational costs of cleantech systems are significantly lower. I did some work for a wine manufacturer in Marlborough last year and they have noticed a 22% reduction in operating costs since they achieved carbon neutrality which gives them a payback of just over 2 years.

And because they are now carbon neutral they have found international market acceptance of their wine has increased substantially and they now export 90% of their production, mostly to Europe.

[Maha]

Scientific claptrap...
Never ceases to amaze me when some catastrophic (or even minor) natural event happens, there has to be some blame attributed to the ''global warming'' phenomenom.

Then ''they'' go on to say that...''an event like this has not happen since 1923''...

Eh?... so it has happen before then?...

Its the natural cycle of the planet upon which we all live.

[shrub]

Scientific claptrap...

Yeah, bloody scientists. What do they know? Bill down at the pub has all the answers, and he gets is info from the internet so I'll listen to him first every day. Plus he has a beauty Commodore ute and a grouse missus , and you gotta take guys like that seriously. University - what the hell did anyone ever learn from a university? All them bloody students do is take drugs and shag each other, bet none of them can strip a Massey Ferguson tractor.

Bill reckons Al Gore has a mountain hideaway and is using tingle rays to manipulate the world's leaders, scientists (bloody idiots that they are) and the media to believe in climate change so he can make money. And Bill's mate Pete reckons that the government are in league with Al Gore and are changing the weather so they can increase our taxes.

Bastards!

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

Yeah, bloody scientists.


blah blah blah...


Bastards!

Nah its them aliems I tells yah...

[shrub]

Nah its them aliems I tells yah...

nah, they'd be more interested in probing us than taxing us.

[carbonhed]

In NZ there is a lot of concern that the Mediterranean and Oriental fruit fly species will be able to flourish which would decimate our fruit industry, and all it will take is a 0.8 degree rise in mean temperature.

Horseshit again I'm afraid. Oriental, Mediterranean and Queensland fruit fly are all terrible threats now and capable of establishing a permanent presence now...

I realise there's a financial incentive for you in spreading this alarmist bullshit but do you actually have any real examples to back this statement up? :-

"There are a whole raft of single events that could occur that would completely gut our economy, and climate change is behind many of the bigger ones."

[shrub]

Horseshit again I'm afraid. Oriental, Mediterranean and Queensland fruit fly are all terrible threats now and capable of establishing a permanent presence now...

I realise there's a financial incentive for you in spreading this alarmist bullshit but do you actually have any real examples to back this statement up? :-

"There are a whole raft of single events that could occur that would completely gut our economy, and climate change is behind many of the bigger ones."

Why do I waste my time? They (and many other pests) are capable of establishing a permanent presence in many areas, including Te Puke, but not of flourishing and that's the difference. If temperatures rise then suddenly the rules change and the bugs that fly off a ship at the mount instead of struggling along until they get eaten by a passing sparrow breed like crazy.

And as for "financial incentives", I'll actually be much better off in the long term if climate change never happens and in the short and medium term it makes absolutely no difference to me at all. In fact the amount of time I waste chatting to chimps like you means climate change is probably costing me money.

And on that note, I have beer that needs drinking and that's more interesting and attractive than you are.

[carbonhed]

Why do I waste my time? They (and many other pests) are capable of establishing a permanent presence in many areas, including Te Puke, but not of flourishing and that's the difference. If temperatures rise then suddenly the rules change and the bugs that fly off a ship at the mount instead of struggling along until they get eaten by a passing sparrow breed like crazy.

Nah... horseshit again I'm afraid. If they can overwinter successfully then it would get bloody over the warmer months... but then this is my job and area of expertise so kicking your arse up and down the internet, though entertaining, is hardly sporting.

The trouble is you're not really grasping the nature of the problem, the physical damage the little buggers would cause, whilst considerable, is almost irrelevant, the main problem would be that some of our most lucrative export markets would slam shut and stay closed until we eradicated them.

Whether they "thrive" or not.. if they're happy and well adjusted... those damn foreigners just wouldn't give a fuck.

So do you have any more examples of those..

"There are a whole raft of single events that could occur that would completely gut our economy, and climate change is behind many of the bigger ones."

[shrub]

Nah... horseshit again I'm afraid. If they can overwinter successfully then it would get bloody over the warmer months... but then this is my job and area of expertise so kicking your arse up and down the internet, though entertaining, is hardly sporting.

The trouble is you're not really grasping the nature of the problem, the physical damage the little buggers would cause, whilst considerable, is almost irrelevant, the main problem would be that some of our most lucrative export markets would slam shut and stay closed until we eradicated them.

Whether they "thrive" or not.. if they're happy and well adjusted... those damn foreigners just wouldn't give a fuck.

So do you have any more examples of those..

"There are a whole raft of single events that could occur that would completely gut our economy, and climate change is behind many of the bigger ones."

I'm going to give you that one, I was working off memory and in a hurry and didn't check my facts. In 06 I contributed to a study on the likely impact on the Kiwifruit industry of climate change, and I recalled reading that mediterranean fruit fly would cause major problems. I was wrong and accept that you were right on that count. I work in business analysis with specialist interest and expertise in consumer behaviour and stakeholder engagement. I know bugger all about insects.

However that doesn't change the validity of the argument that climate change is a major problem and is primarily cause by human activity.

As far as climate change potentially causing massive problems - I stand by that. I'm arguably guilty of a little hyperbole, but in my defense I am living in a town that has been devastated by what is essentially a single event that had several impact points over a 9 month period, so I have seen how things can turn to shit and seen how people who should be fine are in the process of losing damn near everything.

We are a tiny little country that has a very small population. We depend on primary produce and tourism for most of our income and too many of our strategic industries (banks etc) are foreign owned. Our level of indebtedness is right in the danger zone and the resources we own are either being squandered or we need foreign entities to be able to access them and will only ever get paid a small royalty - eg coal, oil, gas etc. We are in the middle of the global econcomic crisis with few signs of recovery, or more to the point no evidence of doing anything to get ourselves out of the shit and our 2nd largest city has just been devastated at a potential cost of $20bn - $30bn (and that's the public estimate).

If nothing else goes wrong, dairy continues to boom and tourists keep on coming here we will muddle along and eventually things might even pick up a little.

And that's where climate change could fuck things up. Forget rising sea levels, they won't impact on us for decades and are as much a problem to NZ as polar bears becoming extinct. Primary produce is very vulnerable to weather and climate - ask any farmer, so if climate changes then there is potential for farming, agriculture and forestry to suffer, and they are our cash cow (no pun intended). Tourists come here for our environment, and that is dependent on the climate. If we don't have snow covered mountains people won't come here to look at them.

We have to wake up and recognise that things are changing, and we can't stop that change. Whining about paying tax or how much money Al Gore makes and saying that climate change is all a scam is pointless and even destructive. We need to channel our energies into developing strategies to adapt and change with the climate. If we do, we will be one the best positioned countries in the world and our future is sorted.

[mashman]

However that doesn't change the validity of the argument that climate change is a major problem and is primarily cause by human activity.

As far as climate change potentially causing massive problems - I stand by that. I'm arguably guilty of a little hyperbole, but in my defense I am living in a town that has been devastated by what is essentially a single event that had several impact points over a 9 month period, so I have seen how things can turn to shit and seen how people who should be fine are in the process of losing damn near everything.

We are a tiny little country that has a very small population. We depend on primary produce and tourism for most of our income and too many of our strategic industries (banks etc) are foreign owned. Our level of indebtedness is right in the danger zone and the resources we own are either being squandered or we need foreign entities to be able to access them and will only ever get paid a small royalty - eg coal, oil, gas etc. We are in the middle of the global econcomic crisis with few signs of recovery, or more to the point no evidence of doing anything to get ourselves out of the shit and our 2nd largest city has just been devastated at a potential cost of $20bn - $30bn (and that's the public estimate).

If nothing else goes wrong, dairy continues to boom and tourists keep on coming here we will muddle along and eventually things might even pick up a little.

And that's where climate change could fuck things up. Forget rising sea levels, they won't impact on us for decades and are as much a problem to NZ as polar bears becoming extinct. Primary produce is very vulnerable to weather and climate - ask any farmer, so if climate changes then there is potential for farming, agriculture and forestry to suffer, and they are our cash cow (no pun intended). Tourists come here for our environment, and that is dependent on the climate. If we don't have snow covered mountains people won't come here to look at them.

We have to wake up and recognise that things are changing, and we can't stop that change. Whining about paying tax or how much money Al Gore makes and saying that climate change is all a scam is pointless and even destructive. We need to channel our energies into developing strategies to adapt and change with the climate. If we do, we will be one the best positioned countries in the world and our future is sorted.

Interest rate 5%:

$100 + $5
$100,000 + $5,000
$1,000,000,000 + $5,000,000

etc...

How many people do we have? How much money do we have? Free money, "unborrowed" money (put it into clean and green research?) The world needs money at the moment, right? That's about the only way you can use our size to our advantage in the global market place imho... Perhaps the "brains" of the world would move to NZ and setup shop, if only because we have money to spend?

[shrub]

Interest rate 5%:

$100 + $5
$100,000 + $5,000
$1,000,000,000 + $5,000,000

etc...

How many people do we have? How much money do we have? Free money, "unborrowed" money (put it into clean and green research?) The world needs money at the moment, right? That's about the only way you can use our size to our advantage in the global market place imho... Perhaps the "brains" of the world would move to NZ and setup shop, if only because we have money to spend?

Only problem is we don't have any money.

[mashman]

Only problem is we don't have any money.

If the wealth is with the top 10% of the population. Then we have money.

[Ocean1]

If the wealth is with the top 10% of the population. Then we have money.

Ah, no. They have the money. Thank fuck, 'cause if you had it it'd only be very very briefly.


The top 13% of taxpayers in our country contribute 'prox 75% of the tax take. Conversely, 55% of taxpayers' contributions are in the negative, (by the time you add up all their subsidies).

That leaves not very many people carrying the rest of you fat lazy bastards. You orta be ashamed.

[mashman]

Ah, no. They have the money. Thank fuck, 'cause if you had it it'd only be very very briefly.

The top 13% of taxpayers in our country contribute 'prox 75% of the tax take. Conversely, 55% of taxpayers' contributions are in the negative, (by the time you add up all their subsidies).

That leaves not very many people carrying the rest of you fat lazy bastards. You orta be ashamed.

I'd be giving it to the Kiwibank financeers to use to generate wealth on the commodity markets of the world. No point in me having it .

Wonder why that is? They undertake menial/mundane tasks perhaps? And that 13% probably give to charity too ... so as well as submitting a lower salary for taxation purposes, they also receive a ?33%? refund, i mean thank you from the govt that I shouldn't be covering... Probably enough to look after 2 or 3 families for a year.

Aye... they can't get it right after 5000 years, so they should be able to continue to get it wrong?. Gotcha

[jonbuoy]

I'd be giving it to the Kiwibank financeers to use to generate wealth on the commodity markets of the world. No point in me having it .

Gone in 60 days.