Eleven Billion

[James Deuce]

Just a thought. I took out student loans for my fees for my Masters. I paid them off over each semester.

3 years later I was rung by IRD and asked for the $7500 outstanding on my student loan. It was bullshit and took a bit of work to sort out, but they still gouged me for an additional $3500 over the next couple of years even though I'm on PAYE.

I reckon that this is simply a way of presenting the education system as being out of control and students as being irresponsible dickheads so they can force wages for degreed people down and reduce Government spending in the tertiary education sector.

I think you're a bunch of chumps if you take anything the Government says at face value. In fact, ANYONE involved in politics falls into that category.

[avgas]

Wouldn't it? There were riders on some degrees. Teachers were bonded, I had to work while earning my qualification. Try working full time shift work, while studying, non stop for 3 years.

Pfffttt pussy.

Try 8 years, and mid-time work (35 hours week), and 80K of loan.

All over in 10 weeks (study and loan)

All of this was hard for one simple reason. Studylink refused to acknologed that I was living away from home - not being supported by my dad. (Who deserves every $ of his crust seeing as he works 80hr weeks).

While I agree with the sentiment of many here - loans should be paid back. I know (from the inside) the whole system is fucked. And if you want to fix it - its going to cost you.
Simple things like:

- Standard student allowance for all NZ students. (to help pay living costs) - say 70% of living costs
- Remove "living allowance" part of student loan
- If you do not achieve an average C pass, you do not get loan next year

Would eliminate:
- prevent people whom don't want to work+study from the system
- prevent people from doing a course they will never achieve
- prevent people whom would normally do uni cos their mates are doing it - live a life on credit.

As for the current debt - they just need to be stricter. Pass the debt to GE money / Baycorp or someone. Not IRD. People have 30 year old tax bills with IRD and not know it - because IRD are just slack.
Funny how they mention the 11b debt, not the 30b paid back.

[Maha]

And how much $$$ have those people brought into the country? How much more tax has been paid because people are earning alot more with their education?

If you want to live in a 3rd world country, by all means, devalue education.

Otherwise learn how the world works, and what is required to live in todays world.

Hell, $11b seems like a cheap investment in the future of the country (and thats even ignoring anyone paying any back) if you look at how long that took to rack up.

Lets look at the figures:

Earning potential in my area $80-$120hr. Take the middle, $208000 per year, paying a total of $59,560.00 in tax per year (double my loan amount when I left uni).

Earning potential of average NZer $35k (if I remember correctly that the average yearly income in NZ). Total tax paid; $5,145.00

Now spread that out over 40 years working, educated person, $2.38mil of tax paid in his life time of working, non educated person, 200k.

Which one is actually helping the rest of the country more??? sure it cost the country $30k initially, but within the first couple of years they have already paid their debt to society as some put it, so perhaps it’s the non educated that owe a debt to the educated as they are the ones paying the most tax and helping the country grow if that’s how you look at life (and I really hope you don’t).

Investment my arse, the smart ones are now living/working and contributing to other country's, not NZ...85,000 of them to put a figure on it.
Fact is, students were loaned the money, they have to pay it back, nows a good time for those that have found employment.

[-df-]

Investment my arse

And we wonder why this country is going to shit...we want it all, but not willing to do anything about it.

EDIT: And I would hazard a guess that the main reason they bugger off overseas is because they are sick of proping up half a country that can't be arsed learning new skills and bettering themselves and the country...I know I've thought of it, and thats the main reason I would leave.

[bogan]

When were you last a student? FUn times on the govt bill. NOt bloody likely.

Still am, maybe the lower living costs in palmy makes it easier.

Investment my arse, the smart ones are now living/working and contributing to other country's, not NZ...85,000 of them to put a figure on it.
Fact is, students were loaned the money, they have to pay it back, nows a good time for those that have found employment.

How many students are actually 'defaulting' on their loans though? Seems to me the government is lending more (inflation, fee rises etc, more students) so you would expect the outstanding balance to be more.

[Maha]

And we wonder why this country is going to shit...we want it all, but not willing to do anything about it.

EDIT: And I would hazard a guess that the main reason they bugger off overseas is because they are sick of proping up half a country that can't be arsed learning new skills and bettering themselves and the country...I know I've thought of it, and thats the main reason I would leave.

I already have all I want in life...ok a Repsol Honda would be nice ....

You wont answer the real issue here will you....
Student loans need to be paid back...yes or no?
You can only answer yes to that question.
Any surrounding issues as to why these loans are not being repaid is quite frankly, rediculous. Death is one out, but other than that? living in another country does not exempt one from repaying a loan.....you do what the word 'loan' means?

[marty]

Simple fix - make everybody who takes out a student loan surrender their passport until they have repaid their debt to society.

Good one. We live in NZ, not North Korea.

I recently disappeared off shore for a 2 month contract. On return, I made a lump sum $15k payment off my loan.

Your passport idea would have precluded that - still sound like a good idea?

[-df-]

I already have all I want in life...ok a Repsol Honda would be nice ....

You wont answer the real issue here will you....
Student loans need to be paid back...yes or no?
You can only answer yes to that question.
Any surrounding issues as to why these loans are not being repaid is quite frankly, rediculous. Death is one out, but other than that? living in another country does not exempt one from repaying a loan.....you do what the word 'loan' means?

Ok, yes a loan should be repaid, and I have no problem repaying mine, if it wasn't for that I wouldn't be in the position I am now.

Should all student loans have to be paid back? Only answer I can give is no, I believe not all should have to be paid back. Someone that’s doing a degree that will benefit EVERYONE (either by tax or what they do) should not have to pay it back...why you ask? Because then more people will do it, the country grows stronger because of it and EVERYONE wins...and these people spending $30k on a degree they will never use will stop.

Should Maori studies, astrology, history, etc be fully subsidised? hell no

All sciences should be free to study...think about what this country would be like in 100 years if that would happen...*waits for smart mouthed idiots*

You DO know what the word economy means don't you?

[bogan]

All sciences should be free to study...think about what this country would be like in 100 years if that would happen...*waits for smart mouthed idiots*

Ahhh, population control, too many overqualified people mean most have to go overseas to find jobs, and overseas will want them cos they are smart, lowering NZ population... *there, I didn't even make you wait long *

[Brett]

Between the wife & I we earn (a very large sum) LESS than what we would get in Aussie, and no...that is not out in the middle of nowhere with only camels to talk to, that is around urban Sydney, Melbourne or Adelaide. We stay in NZ because we like the lifestyle and the family is all here. However, those attractions only last so long. If the government were to decide to make interest payable on all completed student loans, that would be the tipping point. Not going to get paid half (or less) what we can get in Aussie and still get hit with interest.
If the govt wants interest for their loan, then fair enough, but it would be sayonara kiwi land and I would start speaking with an Aussie twang. SL's would still be paid off and we would have more than twice in the bank what we get here.
IMO if the govt want to reduce their costs in regards to SL's, then they need to stop funding all these ridiculous programmes that ultimately have few roles to be filled. E.g... diving instructor, sports and recreation, skydiving instructor and the list goes on. Sure for some people these are going to be professions, but not for the 'X' thousand who are doing these courses.
Also, schools are not pushing the trade route enough yet. Ok, apprenticeships have been hard come by over the last 2 or 3 years, but I still think that apprenticeships are great, many tradies do bloody well.

[avgas]

Should all student loans have to be paid back? Only answer I can give is no, I believe not all should have to be paid back. Someone that’s doing a degree that will benefit EVERYONE (either by tax or what they do) should not have to pay it back...why you ask? Because then more people will do it, the country grows stronger because of it and EVERYONE wins...and these people spending $30k on a degree they will never use will stop.

Pffftt we can import more hippies.

So no all loans should be paid back. I mean it makes a social worker a bit of a hippocrite if they state "you need to strive a bit harder" when they are milking the gravy train.

As for the science.......bwahahahaha considering some of our best inventions never got near a science graduate. Shows how 'skilled' they are.

[oldrider]

Would have been nice to go to Uni when it was free...

It never was "free", there is no such thing as a free lunch, someone, somewhere foots the bill!

It may have been temporarily free for the students but it was still not free for the taxpayer!

Failure to pay back student loans is simply just stealing from your own family!

[slofox]

, and who wants to borrow a student?

I'd "borrow" some of the young girlie ones...

[-df-]

So no all loans should be paid back.

Short-sighted, sad really...mind you, thats what this country is founded on isn't it?

As for the science.......bwahahahaha considering some of our best inventions never got near a science graduate. Shows how 'skilled' they are.

Well, that statement tells me alot.

Whether its by a "graduate" or someone just interested in science...its the only area that will matter in couple hundred years...

On that, I think degrees are bullshit really...I learnt all I needed before going to uni, and after...I didn't really learn anything new there...but I needed that piece of paper otherwise I wouldn't have got the job...but they are there to show that you can learn (when mums not on your back to go to school)

Anyway, doesn't sound like you'll ever understand so...yeah, have fun.

[-df-]

Ahhh, population control, too many overqualified people mean most have to go overseas to find jobs, and overseas will want them cos they are smart, lowering NZ population... *there, I didn't even make you wait long *

Chur chur, I don't like to wait