Eleven Billion

[racefactory]

The culture of 7th form is that when you are finished you are going to uni. Generally those that drop out earlier are considered...drop outs. Even if you finish 7th but don't go to uni you're considered less favourably than those that are.

All through out the year you are bombarded with offers from universities with teachers and parents ramming that shit down your throat. If you don't go to uni -> loser. Uni is the only way for you to be a success. All your friends are going. Do this career test so you know which uni course to take. You can be that but only if you go to uni blah blah blah.

Everyone gets sucked into this whirlpool of bullshit. People go to uni that don't even want to. Or don't know what they want. Cases abound.

All this shit and it's fucking expensive. People talk about paying their loans off years, decades after they finish.

It's OK though right? Just take out a loan. Here's free money. This will solve all your problems and stop you from being left behind. Here you go, take this. This is the way. Little debt never hurt anyone. Remember you're going to uni, you'll be a success, you'll pay it off in no time...

More bananas dangled in front of the monkey.

Then reality hits. You grow and realise you're doing something you hate. Your degree doesn't mean shit. The job market wants experience, not a piece of paper. There's hundreds of others with the exact same piece of paper you have. The job you get isn't paying you nearly as much as you've been lead to believe. You're completely fucked if you even think about starting a family.

All this bullshit and you've still got at least 10k sitting to be paid back. If you're one of the lucky ones who can get a job in your field, your already low wage is crippled further by this burden. Not only that, you've got interest accruing if you leave.

Now some dickhead's blaming you for the economic issues the country's facing. Fuck that, go to Australia and don't come back.

Who the fuck wouldn't?

This is the only post on this thread with some insight worth the time reading. Massive culture problem, like sheep to the slaughter house. I could see this phenomenon even as a 6th former.

[Brian d marge]

Investment my arse, the smart ones are now living/working and contributing to other country's, not NZ...85,000 of them to put a figure on it.
Fact is, students were loaned the money, they have to pay it back, nows a good time for those that have found employment.

Who told you it was a loan? The government , or Satchi and Satchi? Dont get me wrong , When it first started David Carter told me face to face in his beehive office that its will be 25 % of the cost ,,,,

Tui moment

No problem with that ...Very big problem of being lied to and forced into debt ( because that what effectively is happening) and with such large amounts , all because of political ideology ...

Some of what the TV tells you may not actually be true

Stephen

[steve_t]

Should all student loans have to be paid back? Only answer I can give is no, I believe not all should have to be paid back.

How about instead of not making all loans be paid back, they give more funded scholarships to those in particularly economically beneficial fields?

[Brian d marge]

It never was "free", there is no such thing as a free lunch, someone, somewhere foots the bill!

It may have been temporarily free for the students but it was still not free for the taxpayer!

Failure to pay back student loans is simply just stealing from your own family!

But you expect the state to educate the primary school kids and High school kids, then tertiary must borrow large amounts , yes someone has to pay ...but the model is wrong , and the contract has been broken

Stephen

[superman]

It is true a ridiculous amount of the population go to university these days. What they need to do is make entry criteria much higher, now if you finish 7th form you can get into university. You don't need good marks in 7th form or anything you just need to scrape through.

All these bloody people doing non-beneficial degrees IE non-specialised BAs are not useful at all, I'm sure most bosses would want someone with 3 years working experience over a non-specialised BA student who has no experience.

Raise entry criteria, that will lower student numbers. Make it much more affordable and then if those who did shiite at school still want to go to uni they can pay for it themselves, since obviously they didn't take advantage of the free high school education system to get to a university level.

[racefactory]

BA in New Zealand Hip-Hop Culture anyone?
Or how about a Bachelor in Circus Performing?

'Fast-growing demand in these fields ensure excellent prospective job opportunities for graduates'

Sounds good? Not sure what to do after school? No problem just sign here and you can pay it off for the rest of your life. It's an abomination; the rule of thumb for 7th formers now is that if you're not sure what to do after school, go and do a business degree.

This is for real folks, fuck the system...

[-df-]

How about instead of not making all loans be paid back, they give more funded scholarships to those in particularly economically beneficial fields?

That would make a lot more sense than some SL have to be paid back and some not, basically the same end result, more bums in seats were we (as a country) need them.

A mate of mine almost completed a degree a few years back, dropped out to earn some $$, and has just decided to go back and finish it now as he was a lot closer to finishing than he thought...but guess what topics he's taking (nothing to do with course mind you, electives)...Buddhism and Hinduism, and another paper that I was like, really, that’s actually taught at uni?????

[Indiana_Jones]

Let's not forget Johnny-boy Campbell's rant with Ken Ring..... where he pretty much said to have any opinion you must goto uni, if you don't sit down and shut up!

-Indy

[avgas]

Short-sighted, sad really...mind you, thats what this country is founded on isn't it?

Actually its founded on the opposite.
The "don't worry we'll sort it out now for you" beneficial scheme.

Fact of the matter is that if people have to pay something back - they are better for it in the long run. This was the same in the apprentice days when you had to slave your ass away for a few years with a firm to get qualified.

You find me one person whom has had easy street and is now contributing to society and I will find you 10 whom weren't the press fakes.

[Delerium]

It is true a ridiculous amount of the population go to university these days. What they need to do is make entry criteria much higher, now if you finish 7th form you can get into university. You don't need good marks in 7th form or anything you just need to scrape through.

All these bloody people doing non-beneficial degrees IE non-specialised BAs are not useful at all, I'm sure most bosses would want someone with 3 years working experience over a non-specialised BA student who has no experience.

Raise entry criteria, that will lower student numbers. Make it much more affordable and then if those who did shiite at school still want to go to uni they can pay for it themselves, since obviously they didn't take advantage of the free high school education system to get to a university level.

That has flaws as well. I didnt pass 7th form. I now have an A- average in a B.com IT major.

[Maha]

Who told you it was a loan? The government , or Satchi and Satchi? Dont get me wrong , When it first started David Carter told me face to face in his beehive office that its will be 25 % of the cost ,,,,

Tui moment

No problem with that ...Very big problem of being lied to and forced into debt ( because that what effectively is happening) and with such large amounts , all because of political ideology ...

Some of what the TV tells you may not actually be true

Stephen

Surely any smart student wouldn't have been so naive as to think that any Government of the day was going to gift them money?

Glad you inserted the word Tui, otherwise I would have thought you were just takening the piss.

[Brian d marge]

Surely any smart student wouldn't have been so naive as to think that any Government of the day was going to gift them money?

Glad you inserted the word Tui, otherwise I would have thought you were just takening the piss.

I dont think it was a gift , nor would most of the student that undertook tertiary education.Fundamentally the money has to come from somewhere , IF you get it from tax for a bright few ( university ) or the masses ( polytech ) then the society AS A WHOLE bears the cost and the result the Student tend to stay in NZ ( no reason to leave or if they do leave there is the freedom to return )

IF you front load the student , ie force them in to ( sometimes Large Debt ) then it makes economic sense to leave to earn the money . Families are divided and we as a whole bear the social cost. The world is truly global and the drift is towards the large centers , families are the anchor which keeps communities together. ( look around for yourself ........)

The money was always "loaned " ( tax , then used for education ) , but in 1990 they ,as part of a failed economic theory, used students and the cost of the student to drive down government spending, ( spending on the community notice their salaries weren't touched )

So my original question still stands , Who told you it was a "loan" that should be paid back? the government , or satchi and satchi , or bloke down the pub.

Stephen

[Maha]

Its called a ''Student Loan'' so one would assume its a loan.....

[Bodir]

How did I ever managed to pay for my education without Parents of SL. What a world we are living in where it became a right to get money from the taxpayers to study. I confess, I have done something wrong in the past.

Do I pay more in Taxes now? Yes.

The only difference in self funding is you do what you need to do and get it done as fast as you can. For me, student loan is exactly that, a loan, provided by a "nice" government to help you out. I did not take this advantage, cause where I come from the rules are a lot harder on your repayment.

[avgas]

How did I ever managed to pay for my education without Parents of SL.

I don't think this is the best place to announce you whored yourself on the streets. They have helplines for those kinds of mental problems these days.